Queens: to clip or not? that is the question.

[Pete D]

Its amazing what is done in the name of animal husbandry and welfare.

But to keep the thread on track, no I dont clip my queens............but the way this season is shaping up I may start

 

[jd101k2000]

Just thought: I have had all my tom cats neutered to prevent anti-social behaviour (for instance: fighting other cats and getting every queen in the area up the duff). After having partly dismantled someone's property yesterday to try to remove a large swarm of bees from a roof void, and failing, I am coming around to the idea of clipping - to prevent anti-social behaviour. (Yes, I know that it does not prevent swarms only delays their issue.)

No longer apathetic!

 

[cjhart2]

Depends if you are farming bees or just being a custodian of bees .

Unfortunately too many beeks look at queens more as an investment . The rush to ‘ quiet productive queens ‘ at £ 50 a pop and do not want to lose their investment .
Me I am a custodian of bees , if they want to leave they can , if you try and interfere with nature it has a habit of biting you back .

 

[davnig]

I clip my queens due to keeping my bees in my back garden at present and on an allotment . I had a hive swarm just after an inspection a couple of weeks ago i noticed open queen cells reduced these to one and was just getting new brood box out of shed when they swarmed off to a neighbours tree 15 mins later they all came back lucky me found the queen walking in the grass by the hive demeree done and now reunited back together with the old queen as she was a late 2013 . Decided to remove the queen cell before it hatched due to the weather not being great hive now not showing any further signs of swarming fever.

Now see, I don't clip mine because I have them in my garden with neighbours around. My reasoning is that there will be more local disturbance by the bees milling about longer and closer because the Queen isn't around which will disturb the neighbours more; whereas if the Q can fly they will go and settle quicker somewhere, hopefully high up (yeah I know!) before finding a home or I can get them if close by. I'm not doing it so the problem goes away to further then my immediate neighbours but I do think there will be less disturbance.

I do hasten to add I do all I can to prevent swarming as I know it causes inconvenience and fear

 

[Teebeeaitch]

mbc # 16
I do think the whole thing of clipping is more than just a few days grace on inspections, I believe it changes the psychology of the queen into a reluctant swarmer who will actively destroy queen cells....

That's a very interesting viewpoint. I am certainly not dismisssing it as I have no experience of clipped queens. It would imply that the queen is aware that she is no longer able to fly and reacts accordingly. Does that make her psychologically damaged as well as physically damaged then. I have heard all of the reasons for clipping, but I still dont think its justified. So no, I dont clip.

 

[Skyhook]

I haven't got around to it yet cos..........
been flat out, docking the tails of lambs, horses, pigs, the dog and the cat when I can catch it.
Before that I was tied up as the new ducklings needed pinioning, the rhino and elephant needed their tusks sawing off, then can you believe the badgers needed shooting, which I will try and do just after I have finished force feeding the geese.

All completely necessary for a wide range of reasons

I may get around to it after forcing my colonies to stay un-naturally big so I can rape them of all the honey they collect.

Nice to see you're keeping busy.

.

 

[Chris B]

Unfortunately too many beeks look at queens more as an investment . The rush to ‘ quiet productive queens ‘ at £ 50 a pop and do not want to lose their investment.

You have possibly misunderstood the intent of clipping. In the event of a swarm attempt you are actually sacrificing the queen in order to prevent the loss of bees.

 

[cjhart2]

You have possibly misunderstood the intent of clipping. In the event of a swarm attempt you are actually sacrificing the queen in order to prevent the loss of bees.

Do not think i have mis understood . Too many many people on this site have said they have picked up their clipped queen and the swarm surrounding her and put them in a nuc . Lot of sacrifice there then .

 

[Pete D]

Nice to see you're keeping busy.

.

And now on top of all that I have to supervise the labrador and poodle mating sessions

 

[Finman]

Do not think i have mis understood . Too many many people on this site have said they have picked up their clipped queen and the swarm surrounding her and put them in a nuc . Lot of sacrifice there then .

the fact is that clipped queen will vanish into the ground and swarm returns to home. Swarm will not land to the queen. It seems to be a test that the queen can fly and swarm can move to the new destination.

If you are near hive when swarm leaves, you may find a queen. And the queen does not return to the hive. Then after some days the swarm starts again with emerged virgin.

I have clipped queens 50 years.

 

[alldigging]

And now on top of all that I have to supervise the labrador and poodle mating sessions

Is that to make sure they make a labradoodle and not a poodlador?

 

[Pete D]

Is that to make sure they make a labradoodle and not a poodlador?

No its to make sure they dont make a mess on the shag pile carpet !

 

[Finman]

.
Reasons to clip:

1) A swarm can start to collect itself to the canopy of the tree, 15-20 m high. It returns home after 30 minutes.

2) A laying queen may swarm when ever, but as clipped the swarm must return to home. A swarm can escape when they get a new queen. ...This gives more time to the beekeeper to make AS.

3) If there is no larvae or eggs in the hive, it tells how many days ago the swarm tried to escape.

 

[Chris B]

Do not think i have mis understood . Too many many people on this site have said they have picked up their clipped queen and the swarm surrounding her and put them in a nuc . Lot of sacrifice there then .

These cases are just chance encounters. Most clipped queens just disappear if they try to swarm. Some do end up under the hive with a small cluster, but again it's only a minority.

 

[steve56616]

I clipped today and will do them all when I get the chance. Im not risking upsetting people around me if I can possibly avoid it. I don't want another worry they got into someone's roof space

 

[SteeveeTee]

My hive is now a year old and last week we missed a queen cell. On Saturday I watched as all the bees left my hive flying above mine, then the neighbours garden (he is the partner in the 'affair', fortunately). After ten minutes I found that the queen was in a bunch of bees under the landing board.

This seemed incredibly lucky, had never noticed that she was clipped!

Anyway, I then put her back in the original hive and did an 'artificial' swarm, i.e. select queen cell, put this in new hive with stores, nurse bees and frames of brood and so on. Is this likely to be the end of swarming for this season?

 

[keith pierce]

when beekeepers say that they dont clip their queens, what i hear is that you are not capable of finding a queen and if you are and mark her only they you are incapale or too scared to clip her. Last year i picked up 3 early prime swarms with a queen in it that a beekeeper had very kindlty marked.I put them into a hive and they each kindly produced a bumper crop of honey. This year i have picked up one prime swarm with a marked queen and so far they are well into their first super.Thank you.
Last year i had a experienced beekeeper that arrived in my apairy to buy a nuc of bees. I had tried to find the queen and clip and mark her that day but failed and explained this to her. When she said that she does not clip her queens i kindly gave her back her money and sent her on her way.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

I clipped today and will do them all when I get the chance. Im not risking upsetting people around me if I can possibly avoid it. I don't want another worry they got into someone's roof space

Yes, having lost a swarm in a suburban setting I see that argument (will check my loft!) keith pierce, I find your naked aggression unreasoned and so less persuasive.

 

[pargyle]

when beekeepers say that they dont clip their queens, what i hear is that you are not capable of finding a queen and if you are and mark her only they you are incapale or too scared to clip her. Last year i picked up 3 early prime swarms with a queen in it that a beekeeper had very kindlty marked.I put them into a hive and they each kindly produced a bumper crop of honey. This year i have picked up one prime swarm with a marked queen and so far they are well into their first super.Thank you.
Last year i had a experienced beekeeper that arrived in my apairy to buy a nuc of bees. I had tried to find the queen and clip and mark her that day but failed and explained this to her. When she said that she does not clip her queens i kindly gave her back her money and sent her on her way.

Cobblers .... I think wing clipping is a matter of how you FEEL about clipping a queens wings and has nothing to do with the ability to find her and do it .... I didn't even mark my queen ... there have been times when she was elusive but the need to actually SEE a queen is not often necessary as eggs and larvae will tell you she's there. I would accept that a marked queen will tell you whether you have the queen you think is in there and it makes it a bit easier to find her but, again, it's not absolutely essential.

If you are a competent beekeeper and (unlike me !) kept a close eye open for swarm cells then you lower the chance of your colony swarming ... and clipping the queens wings is not going to stop them swarming anyway !

Like I said ... Load of cobblers ...

 

[rolande]

when beekeepers say that they dont clip their queens, what i hear is that you are not capable of finding a queen and if you are and mark her only they you are incapale or too scared to clip her.

I've known a few very experienced beekeepers over the years who never clipped queens and some didn't even mark but neither failing was sufficient for me to rate them less than some of the experts on the internet.

Me, I use the same method as you to clip but I've got to say that TryingToLetThemBee summed it up perfectly

I find your naked aggression unreasoned and so less persuasive.