Queenless still

[Levitt53]

My favourite colony with a 17 queen tried to supersede earlier this season. I found just two sealed QCs on 21st May so left them to it. I next looked at them on 18th June and saw a queen plus heard some piping. I next looked at them on 9th July and added a test frame which they did nothing with. I put a further test frame in on 22nd July, which definitely had a good crop of eggs (it was perfect conditions to see). My plan was to unite them with another colony this weekend if this proved them to be queenless but still there are no QCs and no sign of eggs. It was a large colony but their numbers are dwindling now. I think I am now way outside the time frame of a new queen starting to lay but am not sure what to do or what is going on. Should I assume this means there is a queen in there somewhere who is being super late at getting going. Maybe I should continue to add BIAS for a while. Any suggestions?

 

[Swarm]

Trust the bees, I would take another look in a week's time.

 

[Levitt53]

Ok it seems such a long time, but it would be great if they had requeened. They are chilled and great honey producers.

 

[Bakerbee]

I had nearly the identical thing happen to me at nearly the same time frame bar a week earlier. i gave 2 test frames a week apart, nothing. I waited and waited watching a full double brood hive get smaller and smaller. I have just had to introduce a new purchased queen. I also had advice to leave them to it but their numbers were dwindling so much i went with my gut. I moved the hive with a spare in its place to catch the flyers. Then went through methodically and found a small queen who i suspect was poorly mated. She got the squish. It had been nearly 7 weeks from emergence and my colony was greatly reduced because i waited so long. I suspect that the 3 weeks of contiuous rain in early june caused poor or no mating. I wish id gone with my gut and requeened sooner.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

With 2 sealed queencells on 21st May, you would expect them to be open by the 26th May. With no queencells being produced in the 2 months since then and no brood as well it's fair to say that the chances are that there is a queen in there that is doing diddly squat. With supercedure, we might assume that the queen is of a decent size and therefore shouldn't fit through a queen excluder unlike a scrub queen that might.

I would therefore consider seiving them through an excluder. Put an empty brood box on the hive floor and shake all the bees off each frame in the existing brood box into the empty one. (No foundation or frames). Place on a queen excluder and then the brood box less bees on top. Then add the usual queen excluder and supers. The bees will move through the lower queen excluder back to the brood, leaving the drones and queen below. A day later you can remove the queen and let the drones back in. This technique DOES work. However I have also failed to find a queen in this way too! Then you move onto plan B.
What you then do with the Q- colony is up to you!

 

[masterBK]

In my limited experience if a queen isn't laying after a month after emergence then she usually ends up a drone layer. Had two such examples this year despite some long periods of warm dry weather when by all accounts they had ample opportunities to get mated.

 

[Levitt53]

I'll think I'll wait until Tuesday which is my usual bee day. I'm taking two full supers off them today and leaving one behind which will be much better a size for them. I'll look for new brood on Tuesday and perhaps sieve them as you suggest after that. I have a new split that I can combine them with once I know what the situation is. Thanks all.

 

[Levitt53]

With 2 sealed queencells on 21st May, you would expect them to be open by the 26th May. With no queencells being produced in the 2 months since then and no brood as well it's fair to say that the chances are that there is a queen in there that is doing diddly squat. With supercedure, we might assume that the queen is of a decent size and therefore shouldn't fit through a queen excluder unlike a scrub queen that might.

I would therefore consider seiving them through an excluder. Put an empty brood box on the hive floor and shake all the bees off each frame in the existing brood box into the empty one. (No foundation or frames). Place on a queen excluder and then the brood box less bees on top. Then add the usual queen excluder and supers. The bees will move through the lower queen excluder back to the brood, leaving the drones and queen below. A day later you can remove the queen and let the drones back in. This technique DOES work. However I have also failed to find a queen in this way too! Then you move onto plan B.
What you then do with the Q- colony is up to you!

Thanks for this tip Heebeegeebee - it worked perfectly. There was a little groups of bees in the corner of the QE and there she was. Quickly despatched, supers extracted then combined the next day with the old queen's granddaughter. Another trick to remember.

 

[enrico]

It is always so good to hear the outcome of advice from forum members. Thanks for the update. It makes interesting reading for everyone!
E

 

[Erichalfbee]

It is always so good to hear the outcome of advice from forum members. Thanks for the update. It makes interesting reading for everyone!
E

I once sieved a colony for a queen and when I went back the next day the hive was empty. Every single bee had gone!
I’m glad it works most of the time.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

In a situation such as this I find it much easier to just take the colony a short distance away and shake them all out into a clump of brambles or whatever - bees beg their way into neighbouring hives and within fifteen minutes, if there was a queen you will find her surrounded by a small clump of attendants where the shakeout took place