Queenless Ratty Nuc

[Popparand]

Have you checked with a test frame that they actually are Q-?

PH

Test frame? Could someone explain please

 

[Poly Hive]

The addition of young brood, under three days old so that if they are totally Q- they will have material from which to make queen cells. If they have a queen of some sort already they will not draw cells. I think its in the sticky section as well. Also there is a search function here.

PH

 

[Erichalfbee]

Test frame? Could someone explain please

As PH
Never make a decision that your hive has no queen without one

 

[enrico]

Test frame? Could someone explain please

A test frame is not a yes or no result. If you add a frame of eggs and young larvae and the bees make queen cells it SUGGESTS that there is no queen. If they fail to make Queen cells then it SUGGESTS that there is a queen, mated or virgin. It is fairly reliable as a guide but don't bet money on it!
E

 

[Poly Hive]

Never let me down yet enrico so are your bees different in some way?

PH

 

[Popparand]

The addition of young brood, under three days old so that if they are totally Q- they will have material from which to make queen cells. If they have a queen of some sort already they will not draw cells. I think its in the sticky section as well. Also there is a search function here.

PH

My thanks, kind sir

 

[SWEET]

Be interested to hear the outcome! Is the new queen marked so you can see which survives if there is one in there?

Queen landed today (no pun), i'm going to leave the attendants in the cage and leave it sealed for a 3-4 days and check how the bees are responding, an interesting test.

Feeding them should pull some attention away from the new boss.

 

[Ian123]

I often find they will kill attendants and you stand a chance of queen being damaged in the ruckus. I would always remove them. Maybe that’s just me!!

 

[madasafish]

I often find they will kill attendants and you stand a chance of queen being damaged in the ruckus. I would always remove them. Maybe that’s just me!!

I recall tests support your statement. I too remove attendants - or never include them if a self raised queen from a mating nuc.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Queen landed today (no pun), i'm going to leave the attendants in the cage and leave it sealed for a 3-4 days and check how the bees are responding, an interesting test.

I have never taken attendants out of the introduction cage and have never had issues with this.

Leave the candy plug covered at first so that the bees cannot eat it and get at the queen too soon, leave for a few days and then go back in, and if the bees look fairly relaxed with her, uncover the candy.

 

[SWEET]

I have never taken attendants out of the introduction cage and have never had issues with this.

Leave the candy plug covered at first so that the bees cannot eat it and get at the queen too soon, leave for a few days and then go back in, and if the bees look fairly relaxed with her, uncover the candy.

Thanks for that and backed up the bit of research i've done. Attendants should help feed the queen if the residents take offence, also read they speed up the passing on of queen pheromones but again this could be utter rubbish.

 

[birdsandbees]

I have never taken attendants out of the introduction cage and have never had issues with this.

Leave the candy plug covered at first so that the bees cannot eat it and get at the queen too soon, leave for a few days and then go back in, and if the bees look fairly relaxed with her, uncover the candy.

I was told by a well know queen breeder that leaving attendants would result in 100% rejection, I used to but now I don't and have introduced quite a few queens with them present with no ill effect.
I can't see why it would induce aggression any more than any other bee that picks up her pheromone when around her cage, after all, what happens to any emerging brood around her, do they kill them? I think not!
in all cases as above, you need to assess their acceptance before release, on occasion I have released a queen within 20 minutes as they were all feeding her and fanning Nasenov around with zero aggression.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Attendants always left in here too

 

[SWEET]

Quick look late afternoon and all seems well, I'll release the plug in the next day or two.

Need to bear in mind Q- for over a month and assume a decent amount of bee's from the dumped *killer hive* lurking in there but overall they seem docile.

Inspected the rest of the hives finding all queens so 99.9% this nuc is queen-less.

 

[Walrus]

Queen intro for me:

- remove attendants and use queen cage with candy for a nucleus hive
- queen on her own via a push-in cage for a larger colony

works for me

 

[Erichalfbee]

Need to bear in mind Q- for over a month and assume a decent amount of bee's from the dumped *killer hive* lurking in there but overall they seem docile.

.

I must admit that if I have ever had trouble with queen introductions it’s been with colonies that have been queenless for some time.
Strange. You’d think they would be desperate.
In these cases I always use a push in cage. You don’t even have to tip the queen out into it. Just scratch away most of the fondant plug and put the travel cage inside the push in.

 

[SWEET]

I must admit that if I have ever had trouble with queen introductions it’s been with colonies that have been queenless for some time.
Strange. You’d think they would be desperate.
In these cases I always use a push in cage. You don’t even have to tip the queen out into it. Just scratch away most of the fondant plug and put the travel cage inside the push in.

Interesting, this is something I've pondered and did originally intend to steal a frame of capped brood from one of the stronger hives and place said cage over them. Would give a boost of winter bees and assume give a far higher chance of acceptance.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Interesting, this is something I've pondered and did originally intend to steal a frame of capped brood from one of the stronger hives and place said cage over them. Would give a boost of winter bees and assume give a far higher chance of acceptance.

Make sure that brood is not just capped but emerging.

 

[SWEET]

^^ thanks, I'll make a decision based on how they are around the cage.

I'll post a pic

 

[Stiffy]

I must admit that if I have ever had trouble with queen introductions it’s been with colonies that have been queenless for some time.
Strange. You’d think they would be desperate.
In these cases I always use a push in cage. You don’t even have to tip the queen out into it. Just scratch away most of the fondant plug and put the travel cage inside the push in.

I am not a great fan of the plastic bought in push in cages as things can go wrong: bees tunneling in from back and a small gap allowing early release are just two of the issues I have had.
It doesn't stop determined aggressive bees tunneling , but better I find to use a bit of a bit of old mesh floor and fashion my own
When used, I always slide the plastic cover on travel cage over the push in cage until the queen moves onto the frame, saves worrying she has managed to get out.
S

Oh attendants always with her