Queenless prime swarm.

[jeff33]

I managed to brave the sweltering heat to put my suit on and check my prime swarm from last Friday. As soon as I opened it I could the hear the sound of a queenless hive. I looked through it twice and couldn't see my marked queen, not sure what happened to her. I have now merged it back with the original hive which has a virgin and no other QCs or means to make anymore until the virgin gets mated.
I have never done this before, are they likely to re-try swarming when the new queen starts laying?

 

[bobthecob]

Not sure what the background here has been. You had a swarm last Friday, but how do you know your marked queen was in it? Did you see her when you caught it? Seems a very rapid decision to merge back after only 5 days? What if you just missed the queen in the swarm hive?

Anyway, no, just because they swarmed once doesn't mean they will again. Hard to say much without a bit more colour on what state the hive was in before the swarm.

 

[donky7]

Lots to consider.
Primers have old queens, who's to know she expired during the collection ?

Easy to comment afterwards, as we were not involved at this concerning time of the ROAR" but i would have at least given the swarm a frame of eggs to play with before merging.

Good luck .......... Martyn.

 

[oliver90owner]

Friday to Wednesday and they are still ‘roaring’? Very unusual. A test frame should have been the obvious first move, I think.

With a three week brood break, it will be surprising if they swarm again this year - but no guarantee, of course.

When all the capped brood has emerged it might be a good time to attack the varroa mites, if a problem.

 

[jeff33]

Just to clarify the hive issued a prime swarm last Friday with the 2019 'in house' marked mated queen. Swarm was captured and re-homed in the same apiary in a new hive with a QX below the brood box to avoid absconding. Marked queen was seen on the day. Saturday I added another box as the hive was massive, the queen was seen again, bees were calm, no roaring and settling in nicely. Yesterday I went to remove the bottom Qx and the hive was roaring like a hopelessly queenless hive with bees fanning on top of frames. I went through the hive twice and did not see the marked queen anywhere.

On the original hive from where the swarm left I have the remaining bees, brood and 1 virgin queen + 2 supers. There are no other Qcs and all the brood is too old to make anymore Qcs. I have done this to avoid the potential of casts. I have placed a demaree board above the 2 supers and put on top the Q- swarm part so they are not fully re-united and if by mistake I have missed the marked queen or a virgin that swarm with it they can't get to each other.

 

[beeno]

What does not make sense is that you had a virgin queen in the hive when the marked queen swarmed. So, potentially you could have another virgin in the swarm part. If you do they may swarm again with the virgin queen in the bottom brood box.

 

[jeff33]

What does not make sense is that you had a virgin queen in the hive when the marked queen swarmed. So, potentially you could have another virgin in the swarm part. If you do they may swarm again with the virgin queen in the bottom brood box.

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Yes, I did another post on this last week Beeno. Another reason not to listen to the books
This is the first time I have had this, the prime swarm left when the first virgin emerged. I originally thought they wanted to supercede as I found 2 capped Qcs the week before. I left them to it only for them to swarm last Friday after the first virgin emerged. I destroyed all other Qcs then to avoid a cast.

To be honest yesterday wasn't the best move I did and I am not sure why I even contemplated re-uniting over a board so early apart from the fact that I didn't need another hive and the heat yesterday may have increased my level of stupidity!! I just come back from the apiary and all the bees have moved from the top box to the bottom one and no hope of seeing a virgin in there to ensure nothing happened to her. Not much I can do now so I will leave them alone until early next week and re-assess the situation. If still present the virgin will have mated by then and I can hopefully spot some eggs.

 

[viridens]

... hive was roaring like a hopelessly queenless hive with bees fanning on top of frames. ...

As you say, it was a sweltering day yesterday. My bees were also fanning everywhere and making a lot of noise too.

You seem to have done quite a lot of manipulation, and slimmed-down queens can be extra flighty. I would also have given the swarm a test frame with eggs before merging.

 

[jeff33]

What is done is done, it will go in the learning book.

 

[beeno]

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Yes, I did another post on this last week Beeno. Another reason not to listen to the books
This is the first time I have had this, the prime swarm left when the first virgin emerged. I originally thought they wanted to supercede as I found 2 capped Qcs the week before. I left them to it only for them to swarm last Friday after the first virgin emerged. I destroyed all other Qcs then to avoid a cast.

To be honest yesterday wasn't the best move I did and I am not sure why I even contemplated re-uniting over a board so early apart from the fact that I didn't need another hive and the heat yesterday may have increased my level of stupidity!! I just come back from the apiary and all the bees have moved from the top box to the bottom one and no hope of seeing a virgin in there to ensure nothing happened to her. Not much I can do now so I will leave them alone until early next week and re-assess the situation. If still present the virgin will have mated by then and I can hopefully spot some eggs.
[/QUOTE

 

[beeno]

I remember now. Have you had bad weather? The only problem I can see is that the queen may have been laying eggs up until her departure, so there could be another QC in the making and assuming that you did not miss one.

 

[jeff33]

I remember now. Have you had bad weather? The only problem I can see is that the queen may have been laying eggs up until her departure, so there could be another QC in the making and assuming that you did not miss one.

Not that bad, they had plenty of opportunities to swarm over the last 2 weeks. I will go through the frames in a couple of days to check for QCs.