Queenless Hive

[Springer]

Bit of advice needed here please
Last weekend there were lots of sealed queen cells in my brood and a half. The hive was very full of bees and stores as they were refusing to go up into the super which had been there a week.
Loads of bees and could not find the queen, so my thinking was to thin them out a bit so made up two nucs with nice queen cells.
Was told the hive had not swarmed cos there was lots of well behaved bees.
So either the queen had gone, which I think was the case, or I transferred it into one of the nucs, cos the hive is now quite aggressive, not at all themselves. !
I don't know if I did right but being a new boy, but had a quite peek in the nucs on Tuesday and the cell in both had gone, today the nucs seem quite happy, but to early to inspect I think? Hive was also a bit upset !
Inspected the hive today and there were two queen cells one small and the other queen cup with a tail, not good I believe
So what is my best plan with the nasty brood and a half to get them and me out of the do dose. !
S
P.S. My single brood hives text book, so far, queen cells found, queen found, marked and started artificial swarm today, is a brood and a half a bit racy for a new boy ?

 

[VEG]

Brood and a half will have to be used if the queen is laying up a brood box. Other options available like 14x12 brood box. If the queen doesnt have enough room to lay then swarming is the only option left to them.

 

[Springer]

Thanks for the reply Veg,
Already on brood and a half ! Think 14 x 12 is way to go though, working through 22 frames is not easy, especially for a beginner.
Made an interesting discovery today, spotted a sealed queen cell and panicked, but then spotted a marked queen ? Essential to have queens marked hey !
I thought the theory was that if you have a sealed sell then the queen had gone?.......... bang goes my reading knowledge ?
S

 

[mandabow]

Thanks for the reply Veg,
Already on brood and a half ! Think 14 x 12 is way to go though, working through 22 frames is not easy, especially for a beginner.
Made an interesting discovery today, spotted a sealed queen cell and panicked, but then spotted a marked queen ? Essential to have queens marked hey !
I thought the theory was that if you have a sealed sell then the queen had gone?.......... bang goes my reading knowledge ?
S

if already brood and a half and out of space you can double brood.. 14X12 won't give you many more cells than brood and a half.... but don't do it now, see how this all pans out first

theory is indeed, but often bees havn't read the books.. it may be superceedure (how many cells were there if less than 6 maybe superseedure) bees may know queen is about to fail so prepping to replace her rather than swarm. or you my be nipping the swarming literally at the last second, as it takes a while form the bees to chase queenie around the hive enough that she's lost enough weight to swarm, queens are generally reluctant to leave too.

more likely that in splitting the hive earlier you stopped the swarming instinct, but as the queens had already been accepted and being fed royal jelly they continued until the egg was capped anyways. weakened hive doesn't want to risk fialing if queen leaves now, so will either keep her on until the last minute and swarm or let daughter hatch and make a judgement who to kill as there woudlnt be enough space for two good layers in the hive.

Bit of advice needed here please
Last weekend there were lots of sealed queen cells in my brood and a half. The hive was very full of bees and stores as they were refusing to go up into the super which had been there a week.

try taking QX off for a few days then brushing all bees back into brrodbox before replcing to make sure Queen isn't up there

Loads of bees and could not find the queen, so my thinking was to thin them out a bit so made up two nucs with nice queen cells.
Was told the hive had not swarmed cos there was lots of well behaved bees.
So either the queen had gone, which I think was the case, or I transferred it into one of the nucs, cos the hive is now quite aggressive, not at all themselves. !

if queen was there. presuming by your later post she probably was, then it may be that they were preparing to swarm so stuffed with honey, and now they're having to change their plans as don't feel the colony is strong enough.. so a bit narked

I don't know if I did right but being a new boy, but had a quite peek in the nucs on Tuesday and the cell in both had gone, today the nucs seem quite happy, but to early to inspect I think? Hive was also a bit upset !

sorry bit confussed here... the queen cells in the main hive torn down? if so again could be the girls realising swarming was no longer viable, or that the queens in there where somehow defective.

Inspected the hive today and there were two queen cells one small and the other queen cup with a tail, not good I believe

defo sounds to me queen is failing and their trying to get the best possible viable offspring out of her eggs. twice (or is it 3 times) now you have closed cells with no swarming, either your very lucky or they are superseeding IMHO. queen may seem fine, doing well etc, but bees have a knack of seeing the future, or else forcing it. they may ahve tried to swarm and failed, maybe she can't fly properly .. and now their biding their time to get a new viable queen before bumping her off etc.

So what is my best plan with the nasty brood and a half to get them and me out of the do dose. !

if it were me i'd leave them bee now, bees often know best, or at least seem to ahve a better idea of whats going on. they've built new queens even after splitting, and after ripping down old sealed ones, they havn't swarmed when cells were sealed, if they do swarm you still have the two nucs you recoombine back in once their queens are up and running (or swap a frame of brood with one of your textbook hives so that they can get unrelated eggs to the queen) etc.

the plan may have been.... swarm with queen beofre she fails then superseed her in new home, leaving two viable colonies.. then setback loss of viable colony 1, so plan B stay put raise a superseedure queen and at least make 100% sure that this colony survives, rather than risking it for two

if they don't bump of the queen, you do have superceedure and it's a good trait to breed for... if you keep stopping them you'll never know.


best of luck! be pleased you have yellow fingers(?) (equivalent of green but for bees) as a newbie for all your colonies to be going so well. i hope i have such luck when i start out on my own

 

[Springer]

Thanks for the reply M,
The queen cell in both nucs had both gone ?
What I am wondering now is how long is it before it is reasonable to open up the nucs to check for a mated queen, then the plan is to unite one with the problem brood and a half, thats assuming I still cant find the queen in there ?

Did confuse thing a bit, the marked queen was in another hive at a friends, it was just a comment that revised my book learning that "the queen has gone when a sealed cell is found"
S

 

[Hombre]

Conventional perceived wisdom tends to indicate that upon sealing of the first queen cell a swarm will usually happen fairly quickly, although inclement weather can hold them back a few days until the weather is more favourable.

This year I have seen one or two colonies where there appear to be myriad sealed cells and swarming has taken place up to four days later, with excellent weather throughout. Is this a major anomaly for 2011?

Each new season seems to bring out another twist to contradict the wise texts.

Anyone else noticed this phenomena this spring?

 

[Springer]

Thats exactly what I have experienced H. one of my hives and both of my friends, all three were brood and a half. My single brood behaved as expected and have obviously been reading the text book properly !!
Thanks
S

 

[susbees]

Yup, marked queen still happily laying with 11 capped cells...not overly cramped and no sign of inclinations previous week.

OP...was your QE one of the faulty Th**nes ones? Orange I think...