Queen Fainting during marking?

[WI-USA-BEEK]

How many of you have seen queens faint during or after marking a queen?
How long does it take to recover? Anything that can be done to avoid fainting?

I marked a queen a little over a week ago in a push up cage. After marking the beauty she would not move. I though I had killed her. She was still breathing but otherwise apparently injured. He back end was open and some clear liquid spit out. I was disgusted with myself. I though I squeezed her so hard that I must have burst her insides and out came whatever liquid. As she was still breathing I though I would see if she recovered at all just to see. She just sat there panting away. I almost discarded her being If she would live I did not want the colony going queenless. However after about five or ten minutes she seemed to move a bit and I though the bees are smarter than me with these things and I would just see what happened. I shook her out of cage and she landed upright on the top of a frame and moved maybe a half inch. She was immediately surrounded by attendants that started licking and probing her. I watch for a couple minutes and thought well Ill just see what happens and closed up the hive.

Last sunday the 10th I open the colony knowing it would be loaded with emergency cells. To my astonishment the second frame I pulled was full of eggs, very young larva, and fat grubs. I could not believe it. I thought well there will probably still be supercedure cells but there was not one. I found the queen looking as good as ever with a very nice yellow disc numbered 2 on her back. I was absolutely shocked and still am.

She either fainted as is written about or I squeezed her so hard she could not breath and almost died as bees are very fast metabolically and will die in seconds of suffocation. I'm not sure what it was but the squirting of liquid really put the last nail in her coffin for me mentally when watching her that day.

Please share your like experiences!

 

[oliver90owner]

Fainting? Have you considered you might have partially asphyxiated her, with solvent in the marker?

 

[Hivemaker.]

How many of you have seen queens faint during or after marking a queen?
Please share your like experiences!

Yes a few times,its as if they go into shock and appear dead.

 

[VEG]

Dont know who but it was mentioned quite a while ago

 

[Pooh Bear]

Oh my God! I'm hoping to see a friend marking his queens this week - this sounds so dramatic... beekeeping is such an adrenaline rush at times.

 

[Nat1]

How many of you have seen queens faint during or after marking a queen?
How long does it take to recover?

I have experienced it, very new beekeeping lady marked the queen on the frame with a cage, she overdid it, seemed like 5ltr. of emulsion on her. Queen promptly lay over dead for all appearances. We put her and the frame back in the hive and had a look 20 minutes later and there she was running around unharmed, looked like a brass button up a sweeps a**e.

 

[BKF Admin]

I had one go Catatonic last week.
I wait for them to recover and then pop them back into the hive.

 

[susbees]

Yes a few times,its as if they go into shock and appear dead.

Yes, several. Warm gently til moving again....otherwise the bees will likely dispose of her as "something amiss"...

...but no I have never half squashed one. Marking queens is serious stuff

That's it admin - catatonic. Fainting pigeons. Fainting goats. Fainting queens.

 

[DorsetB]

As mentioned above, the fumes may have had a temporary effect, and "knocked her out"(particularly if you use Tippex).

Regarding the spontaneous fluid release, I read a paper several months ago where the author mentioned that Queens who are locked together in a fight to the death will often release a considerable amount of rectal fluid, which they spray onto their opponent.

It was not made totally clear whether this was a self-defence mechanism in the classic sense or whether it might for example be used to coat the "sprayee" with the "sprayer"'s pheromones in order to confuse the workers into (for example) not feeding the sprayed opponent.

It was also suggested that the queen doing the spraying may do this in order to catch her breath as it were, as it was observed that immediately after the release of fluid the queens would break away from the fight before resuming.

I imagine it might just be possible that the queen you were handling may have felt a bit threatened or squeezed just a little bit more than you are used to doing (no criticism intended, I know I have done it!) and that this resulted in an automatic self-defence mechanism kicking in, perhaps also aggravated by the fact that you may have handled another queen just before that?

 

[Luminos]

Or perhaps she was very, very frightened and...

 

[kighill]

I have only experienced this once when showing a Novice how to mark queens, having marked the queen she appeared to go toes up.

I simply held her in my hand for five minutes or so and she started moving, within ten minutes she was fully recovered.

On the next inspection all was well.

I was very concerned at the time and find it interesting to find I am not on my own to have had this problem.

 

[Pooh Bear]

Maybe she was being a drama queen and throwing a hissy fit like Beyonce or someone...???

 

[dclewis]

Had one faint on me in 2010 when marking. Full recovery was made by Queen but not so sure my heart took it so well!

 

[WI-USA-BEEK]

DorsetB - thanks for the interesting info!

I use Titebond II to glue the discs to the queens. I am very, very, sure it does not release toxic fumes that would do harm to the queen. Yes it is a strange solution to glue discs to queens but it was figured out by a very respected queen breeder here in the USA and it works like a charm for gluing numbered discs to queens. It is 100 times better than the absolutely worthless glue that comes with the kit.

The more I think of it, I am certain she was momentarily suffocated by squeezing to hard. I will try to be more careful in the future. I just am glad I don't have to feel like a queen murderer an longer, lol!

I will resume marking queens on my next visit to the apiaries.

 

[DorsetB]

"I am very, very, sure it does not release toxic fumes that would do harm to the queen"

I have heard of Titebond from US beeks, all good reports.

"I just am glad I don't have to feel like a queen murderer an longer, lol!"

Yes, Regicide, even in miniature, is a terrible crime, punishable by death don't you know

 

[REDWOOD]

Lucky it hasn't happened to me otherwise I would have fainted

 

[buckwyns]

This happened to me this week, marked queen and left her in cage, covered up, while carrying on with inspection. On return she appeared to be dead, but through reading this post the day before, I left her on top of frames and 10 minutes later she was running about as if nothing had happened, so a very big thank you because if it hadn't been for the forum, she would probably been disposed of (mind you, I am still recovering after that close shave and it is definitely a lesson learned).

 

[newportbuzz]

happened to me yesterday while doing an AS on a mates colony. she went comatose but seemed able to hold on which was a belssing i put her on a frame full of bees and made sure she was holding on watched the bees for a min or two to see they wernt balling her nad just licking as normal. and closed up the hive.

next week will tell if she is on if not ive got 20,000 bees and no queen in that hive so i wonder what they will try and do. they have a frame with eggs aswell so if i have queen cells ill know we killed her. no big harm she was good and angry. she is due for requeening as soon as mated queens are ready.

 

[WI-USA-BEEK]

Apparently this is much more common then I thought, lol! I have heard they can discard an unresponsive queen but I am having my doubts that they just toss fainters, maybe non breathers, lol!

 

[carbon]

Maybe she was being a drama queen and throwing a hissy fit like Beyonce or someone...???

A drama queen!!!

Bees don't have lungs, so squeezing them doesn't "suffocate" them. However, the somewhat traumatic experience of having one's colony ripped open, then being immobilized, picked up and painted is probably enough to trigger a last-ditch anti-predator response, such as playing dead. Could it have been that, maybe?