Queen cells in new colony?

[Digestive]

A quick check on one on my hives this morning and it appears that 3 queen cells with royal jelly have appeared in the past 7 days (2 on lower edge of frame and one in the middle of the comb). All unsealed, but one particularly elongated in the classic peanut shape. Lots of capped brood, larvae and a few eggs seen with the queen also being sighted. Also alot of drone cells have appeared in the bottom corners of the frames with brood.


The colony is still quite small (a swarm from a around April) with only 6 frames drawn out with brood and 2 with honey (remaining 4 are foundation yet to be drawn out, and no supers on yet)

Does this sound like an ageing/failing queen, and a supercedure taking place?

 

[BugsInABox]

A quick check on one on my hives this morning and it appears that 3 queen cells with royal jelly have appeared in the past 7 days (2 on lower edge of frame and one in the middle of the comb). All unsealed, but one particularly elongated in the classic peanut shape. Lots of capped brood, larvae and a few eggs seen with the queen also being sighted. Also alot of drone cells have appeared in the bottom corners of the frames with brood.


The colony is still quite small (a swarm from a around April) with only 6 frames drawn out with brood and 2 with honey (remaining 4 are foundation yet to be drawn out, and no supers on yet)

Does this sound like an ageing queen, and a supercedure taking place?

I think most people are going to tell you to assume these are swarm cells and to take the appropriate action to prevent swarm loss. Of the frames drawn out what’s your sense of space - is it packed.
I imagine you loose little by artifially swarming them (stand to be corrected) and then re-combining them?

 

[Digestive]

I think most people are going to tell you to assume these are swarm cells and to take the appropriate action to prevent swarm loss. Of the frames drawn out what’s your sense of space - is it packed.

Thanks, there is lots of space on the frames so no obvious sense of being packed….

 

[BugsInABox]

But what about the brood comb - is there space for ongoing laying.

 

[Digestive]

But what about the brood comb - is there space for ongoing laying.

Yes, there doesn’t seem to to be a lot of eggs visible, but a higher proportion of capped brood and larvae

 

[BugsInABox]

Well if it was me I’d AS them but also pretty new at this (3rd year) so I hesitate to be too definitive with advice - someone else will be along shortly to continue the discussion.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Thanks, there is lots of space on the frames so no obvious sense of being packed….

Foundation is not space
Do you have drawn brood comb?
If not do you have a drawn super?

 

[Digestive]

Since I posted, the colony has now swarmed ….luckily only a few metres away and at low level so being enticed into a nuc.

The question remains this now leave a weakened queen less hive….what’s the best approach to deal with this?

 

[pargyle]

If the swarms is small dummy the nuc down to a frame of stores, a drawn frame if you have one and a frame of foundation and in a day or so feed them to help them draw the comb out, you can add another frame of foundation fairly soon after as they will draw out comb very quickly ... you can always combine them back together in due course once the swarming impulse is over ... you also need to attend to what is left behind ...knock the queen cells down to one good one otherwise you could lose all of them to subsequent castes. The hive left behind will only be queenless until a virgin emerges in the next day or so and then she will be off on a mating flight and bob's yer uncle you have another colony ! (That's the reality of keeping bees ... they multiply !!).

PS: you don't need to entice them into the nuc ... if they are on a branch cut it off and shake them into the nuc you have prepared, put the lid on and leave them there until this evening and with any liuck they will all be in there and you can move it to where you want it ... if the queen goes in there they will usually stay in there ...

 

[Erichalfbee]

And go back in a week to check there aren’t more queen cells

 

[pargyle]

And go back in a week to check there aren’t more queen cells

Definitely ... seems to be a common trend this year ... they don't know when to stop !

 

[user 819]

My reply would have been to make a small nuc with the old Q before they swarm, now they have done so still do so. With unknown swarms Q age isn't known so could be an older Q or failing on. There is time for both parts to grow and then possibly unite in Autumn having got rid of the old Q, alternately if QC's haven't been destroyed kill the old Q and make use of the QC's as you can date them and know they have good larvae in them and raise two colonies to go through winter.
The lack of brood since April may be due to an ageing Q or she may just not be prolific, for both colonies they need to be in a nuc and not a full size hive due to their size. Heat loss will be better and a single one or two bee space entrance for defence.
How you proceed is down to how many colonies you have and if you want any more or an extra one to get through winter for insurance. Any new colony may have approx. have 12 weeks to raise brood once a new queen is laying.

 

[user 819]

If the parent colony has a sealed cell then you need to go back in and remove any others in 5 days time, maybe you have missed one though it isn't unknown for swarming on unsealed QC/s.

 

[Digestive]

Thanks for the advice…at the moment there are no sealed queen cells in the hive

 

[Erichalfbee]

Thanks for the advice…at the moment there are no sealed queen cells in the hive

Then a week will do

 

[pargyle]

Thanks for the advice…at the moment there are no sealed queen cells in the hive

You still need to pick the best one and remove the others. You don't want to risk leaving them ...don't leave it until they are all sealed ... if you don't know the age of the queen cells... you have some time in hand at present...

 

[ericbeaumont]

The colony is still quite small (a swarm from a around April)

Yes, sounds like a duff queen in a cast swarm that didn't mate properly. If the queen arrived mated, same applies.

 

[user 819]

All unsealed, but one particularly elongated in the classic peanut shape.

One suspects this one will be sealed very soon with in the next 12 - 24hrs, so will emerge next Wednesday into Thursday.

 

[Digestive]

So by way of update, checked the hive again this morning and there are now 5 sealed queen cells, few larvae and no eggs.

I’m hoping that a queen will emerge soon and that the hive becomes queenright. Would you leave all 5 QC’s?

In addition there is no super on this hive at the moment, but 6 good frames of brood. Would it be wise to add a super to give the bees more space?

 

[user 819]

One would have to hedge their bet's that a prime and a cast will leave minimum if all cells are left. Bees don't need more space, they need a laying Q they will be a lot happier once a VQ emerges.
The cell with the darkest or opaque shiny tip will be the first to emerge, you are best advised to remove all but one cell. If possible make up a nuc even if from another colony and utilise at least one cell as a back up.