queen cell

[REDWOOD]

You can live in hope, but be prepared for the worst.
I really like this philosophy, I will keep this in mind for future use that's if I don't forget it !!!!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

In RAB's defence here - i read always weeding's first thread on this hive and it wasn't filled with joy was it? nice to see a queen cell but my thought were 'how?' be realistic here we were discussing a dud hive a few days ago so there may well be a disappointment.
Sorry to take the Eeyore stance

 

[always weeding]

ok so i have inspected today and found that the queen cell that was sealed on 1st July is now completely open,it is not hinged as i would have thought so my question is this, what are the chances that a queen has emerged from this cell?

there is still sealed brood in the hive but no larva and no eggs as i would expect.

as i see it i have two options 1) leave them for a bit to see if there is a new queen that mates and starts to lay

2)buy a new queen now and be done with it and put my mind at rest?

thank you in advance

 

[george]

No point buying in a queen unless you are 100% sure it is queen less .

Have you someone who can help you go through as methodically as possible , who is experienced , and put your mind at rest that you do or dont have a queen .
The problem now is , its possibly going to be another few weeks before she lays if she is present . By then you will have lost more bees due to losses foraging and general old age .

I still feel like this was a qless nuc supplied , which is shoddy to say the least or your original queen was damaged or killed and these were emergency queen cells .

Its not the greatest qcell I have ever seen but sometimes you can get a good queen from an emergency cell .
I just think you need to find out if there is one in there or not .
How is the general mood of the hive when you open it , is it loud and roars at you , or calm and quiet ? Its not infallible , but sometimes its a good marker on queenlessness or not .

G

 

[Tom Bick]

It is possible the queen emerged a couple of days ago so the hinged lid would have fallen off by now.

Was the cell open at the tip with a nice serrated edge to it and also were the bees calm.

 

[always weeding]

no it seemed to be quite open with a few bees around it,the colony seemed to be quite calm and i didnt need to use any smoke whilst doing the inspection. ther was no serration to the cell either.

after closing up though there did sem to be a lot of activity around the hive,a bit more than normal

is it worth me just buying a mated queen then to save the colony or risk waiting for a non guaranteed queen?

 

[Tom Bick]

The bees could be starting to remove the cell but to me and everything I have read on this thread I would say you have a queen in the hive. To me although it can be down to the weather but the activity at the hive entrance is a good sign along with the calm bees.

 

[always weeding]

thank you. its a hard one. i think i will leave it for another week and check on the frames then. i know as time goes on that it is more critical but thanks for the advice it is much appreciated.

 

[Walrus]

is it worth me just buying a mated queen then to save the colony or risk waiting for a non guaranteed queen?

Personally I'd rather have a good mated queen from a reliable source, but that's just me. Even so, you still have to be sure you are queenless before introducing a new one, and as the emergency queen cell is now open it sounds quite likely that you have a virgin queen somewhere in there.

 

[always weeding]

so will the workers take the cell down once the queen has emerged as i have read that they sometimes re-seal it. but how long after the queen has emerged before they remove the cell?

 

[Tom Bick]

Yes I think it’s the right decision if you don’t see eggs on your next inspection then look at the cells especially in the central frames if you see them nice and shiny with no nectar or syrup in them then this will be a good indication that the bees are preparing them for eggs another good sign and a bit more patience and nervous days may be required.

You may even spot a queen but the weather is unsettled and she needs a window of opportunity but I hope you see a good frame of eggs and a good queen.

Yes sometimes they do re-seal the cells and they can have a worker inside. It seems to me some bees leave the cells or part of the cells in the hive for ages and others remove sap.

 

[REDWOOD]

you should look through your hive for a new queen, she will be smaller until she is mated but find her and all your questions will be answered, look down at frames before removing them is a good way of finding a queen and also look for a fast moving bee she is usually the queen, if you find her do NOT mark her until she has mated. Old QC are usually gone when you inspect next time, It could take up to 2-3 week before you see eggs,

 

[always weeding]

maybe i am being pecimistic here what are the chances that this queen cell was a dud and that no queen has emerged at all and that the workers have just destoryed it anyway. is a sealed queen cell on one viewing and a week later an opne cell a sure sign that a queen has emerged. thats assuming that they were able to feed royal jely soon enough whilst the larva was young enough.
sorry to be a pain but i am just trying to cover every angle here

 

[Tom Bick]

Its nice to spot a virgin in a hive redwood but for me not necessary and not easy to locate even for experienced eyes. Also she is very capable to fly and take off and can be lost.

With this hive the timings are reasonable but not precised and it is possible perhaps this virgin may be ready or close to mating flights so for me best keep clear.

I know others disagree but if I was watching more than usual pollen going in the hive at the moment that would be great.

 

[Tom Bick]

On the few QC's that I have had experience with that have been duds the bees have just ignored them completely and left them alone for me to remove.



The queen cell is only sealed for 8-9 days and not knowing what day it was sealed it is very possible that it will be sealed on one inspection and open the next.

 

[m100]

Stop fiddling!

Just forget completely about inspecting. Watch telly, go for a walk, go shopping or do anything but go through your bees. If you are there when the queen is on a mating flight then she might get lost if the landmarks change around the hive (like a beekeeper suddenly appearing or disappearing)

You can get away with it at the start of end of the day (not between about 10am and 5pm) but you may still find the bees ball the queen.

If the weather stays like it is, leave it four weeks before opening up. In a couple of weeks time observe what is happening at the hive entrance and report back.

 

[always weeding]

ok then just to update on progress up until now.
i have inspected the hive last week and there were no cells which i didnt expect there to be and no eggs.
i left it another week and then inspected again and still no eggs so i decided to order a new queen. went to introduce the new queen to the hive yesterday in her cage and we found a "virgin" queen.
Rather than kill her i moved her and a few frames of bees with stores to a new hive.

we went up today to remove the queen clip and tape and also took a quick look at hive 2(now renamed Mary).On looking in at hive Mary we found eggs on two frames with the queen still running around.

when we inspected hive 1 we also found eggs in two frames obviously from the "virgin" queen before we removed her.

will the new queen be accepted and secondly will hive Mary be ol and grow or will it die. the only thing that i am worried about is that hive MAry is close to hive 1 and i am worried that the bees will go back to the original hive when they leave for foraging but i was thinking that when the new bees emerge and start to forage that they will go back to Hive Mary as they wont know any different.

 

[oliver90owner]

I have previously read back to the beginnings of your woes.

Yes, both small colonies can develop, but there is a big BUT.

You are clearly inexperienced and are lucky to have actually got a queen from the original disaster.

Had you done the wrong thing early on could easily have finished with a queenless nuc.

You now need to read up on how best to treat very small colonies, as your inital treatment of the colony was, to say the least, lacking in thought and previous reading around the subject.

There are some who advocate just throwing a nuc into a cavernous space and leaving them to get on with it, but there are far better ways and practices for the one, or two, hive owners.

Your problem is now compounded in that the bees are dwindling and have been split in half from the original. Not as bad as it may appear initially (there was emerging brood) but the principle still applies.

The weather may have been more in your favour (warm, if still very wet) early in the month, and August should have better weather (fingers crossed again!!)

As I said earlier, live in hope but be prepared for the worst. You have used up some of the cat's supposed nine lives.

As I see it now, your likely biggest problem will be wasps - but their activity seems to be a little depressed to say the least, this year.

Take on board that you want more bees, not necessarily more stores, and treat appropriately.

That means warmth, minimum space that they can be working and brooding, no feeding unless they actually need it, no gaping holes in the coverboard and a small defendable entrance.

Be prepared to unite if the wasps arrive, or you could finish up losing both small colonies.

They will dwindle for the next three weeks and then, depending on numbers and conditions they may start to expand quite quickly. Good luck. You will need it.

M100 was closest to the mark a couple of weeks ago, but I missed that.

RAB

PS. Feel free to PM me if you want some uncluttered, honest and reliable advice off the forum, where 'conflicting advice is often rife'.

 

[always weeding]

Many thanks Rab,

your reply is to the point and honest, i understand that i have messed up on several accounts and looking back should have left original cells.

i really appreciate the offer of help via inbox and would like to take you up on it.thank you.

thank you for also taking the time to read the whole thread too.

i have learnt a lot but feel that there is so much more to learn but hopefully hands on experience will help

ade