Queen cell but not enough bees...

[sean-a]

I found a couple of sealed Queen cells in the hive on Saturday.
I left one and moved one into a nuc along with a couple of frames of bees + stores.
I had a look at the nuc yesterday and most of the bees have absconded, those left were covering the brood but not the Queen cell.

I am thinking that the situation is not looking good for a viable queen from the nuc?

Any suggestions?

 

[pargyle]

I found a couple of sealed Queen cells in the hive on Saturday.
I left one and moved one into a nuc along with a couple of frames of bees + stores.
I had a look at the nuc yesterday and most of the bees have absconded, those left were covering the brood but not the Queen cell.

I am thinking that the situation is not looking good for a viable queen from the nuc?

Any suggestions?

If you have sealed queen cells the odds are that they have already swarmed .. so the colony numbers are reduced in any case.

If the queen cell is sealed it no longer needs to be covered by the bees - they will be more concerned about looking after the brood on the frames. I would sit tight and let them get on with it ...

If you have frames of sealed brood in the other hive you could donate a frame of sealed brood to balance the numbers up a bit or swap the two hives over in position so you bleed the flyers back to the Nuc but you might have to watch the stores situation ... but, have you checked for eggs/larvae in the oiiginal hive ... no eggs, no day old larvae - no laying queen... she's gone ! And you should shortly have two virgins emerging ...

What are you planning for ... Increase colonies or a honey crop ... you need to think ahead a bit and decide whether you want two new colonies ready for next year or one that might give you a super of honey ..

 

[sean-a]

Queen cell torn down. No sign of queen or many bees, just a handful tonight, and a lonely snail.....

I hope that the other queen cell makes it!

 

[kevrhcfag]

Move the frames / stores back or put them somewhere safe so not to start robbing.

 

[pargyle]

Move the frames / stores back or put them somewhere safe so not to start robbing.

Yes ... I think that's what I would do as well ... but it's a bit strange that they have taken down a queen cell without a resident queen ... before you move the frames be absolutely certain that there is not a queen present.

 

[Erichalfbee]

So the now queen-cell-less box has very few bees?
I'd put the whole lot back together again

 

[Poly Hive]

When making up a nuc on the same site as the parent stock plug the entrance with grass, firmly.

This is so it will act as a slow release and if done right the bees will not get out for three to four days and so will relocate to the new position even if it is but a few feet from the parent.

Works for me.

PH

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes same here. In fact I find shutting them in with grass for a day does it. A good wheeze I find is to lift out three frames of brood and leave them propped up by the hive wall for five minutes. The flyers all fly away and you have nurse bees to shake in.

 

[pargyle]

There's something that we are missing in this situation and I don't know what it is .. two sealed queen cells in the original hive more than likely indicates that the original queen had gone with a swarm ... so what is left behind is two queen cells, a fair percentage of the remaiing bees will be nurse bees ...

So ... what went into the Nuc on the frames that were transferred and where was the Nuc sited in relation to the original hive ?... I think I would have moved the majority of any frames with brood on them into the Nuc and sited it as far away from the orignal hive as I could. Polyhive's suggestion is a good one although I don't really like sealing bees into a Nuc in hottish weather ... could over heat.

What I don't get is why nurse bees should leave brood to return to the original hive ...and why they should tear down a viable queen cell ? I know we are trying to shut the door after the horse has bolted and the only sensible option is to recombine but I do like to have a logical explanation for what has happened and at present I don't have one ..

Someone will come up with something I hope ...

 

[Erichalfbee]

There's something that we are missing in this situation and I don't know what it is ..

OP has to come back and explain exactly what he did.
Maybe the hive hadn't swarmed and the nuc has the queen in it?

 

[Poly Hive]

Frankly if a freshly made up nuc over heats it is seriously over stocked.

PH

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

What I don't get is why nurse bees should leave brood to return to the original hive .....

I've seen it happen - my guess at the time was that the abandoned nuc was just a little too close to the donor hive and they just buggered off back there - not a bee left behind

 

[pargyle]

I've seen it happen - my guess at the time was that the abandoned nuc was just a little too close to the donor hive and they just buggered off back there - not a bee left behind

Well ... that's about the only explanation that fits the bees going ... but the torn down queen cell ? Erichalfbee is right ... a bit more information needed to solve this puzzle ...

 

[sean-a]

I guess that I left the nuc too close to the donor hive.
Only about 3 feet away!

I was expecting that the flyers would return, but seems that almost all the bees did.
No eggs in the nuc, so I don't think that the queen is in there.

Lots of capping on the floor of the nuc, so I think that the bees have robbed out all the stores.
I hope that they don't start robbing the adjacent hives, as there are 3 in the corner of the garden......all about 3 feet from the nuc.

Another learning opportunity!!!
I have had many of these.....Bee keeping is a continual maze of should've and could've's....
At least its early in the season!

 

[pargyle]

I guess that I left the nuc too close to the donor hive.
Only about 3 feet away!
...

Another learning opportunity!!!
I have had many of these.....Bee keeping is a continual maze of should've and could've's....
At least its early in the season!

Yes ... been robbed out ... you will find they really clean the combs up - they don't leave a drop of honey behind. Might explain the demolished queen cell as well ..bit of rape as well as pillage !

It's a never ending learning experience it seems ... don't beat yourself up about anything - it's all learning and if you don't make the odd mistake then you aren't doing anything. Close the nuc up, use the frames if you need them elsewhere or give them a belt of Certan or pop them in the freezer to stop the wax moths getting at them and store for future use - drawn frames are an asset.

Keep your fingers crossed for the original hive and its virgin ... keep us in touch ... everyone learns from what someone else is brave enough to tell us ...

 

[Jimmy]

Agree, robbing sounds most likely. I'm fairly local to OP and post extraction wet supers very quickly had some interest in the 10 minutes between being in the shed and getting them in the car so that they could be returned to an out apiary. Surprising, as field beans in flower nearby and clover and bramble just starting.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I guess that I left the nuc too close to the donor hive.
Only about 3 feet away!

I was expecting that the flyers would return, but seems that almost all the bees did.
No eggs in the nuc, so I don't think that the queen is in there.

Lots of capping on the floor of the nuc, so I think that the bees have robbed out all the stores.
I hope that they don't start robbing the adjacent hives, as there are 3 in the corner of the garden......all about 3 feet from the nuc.

Another learning opportunity!!!
I have had many of these.....Bee keeping is a continual maze of should've and could've's....
At least its early in the season!

Mystery solved at least. We all learn from that.

I've been keeping bees for nearly 11 seasons and I still make mistakes. The most stupid this year was to persist with aggressive bees. Requeening is now a challenge with trying to unite colonies with so many supers on. You live and learn
Good luck with the other hive.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

There's something that we are missing in this situation and I don't know what it is .. two sealed queen cells in the original hive more than likely indicates that the original queen had gone with a swarm ... so what is left behind is two queen cells, a fair percentage of the remaiing bees will be nurse bees ...

There is a mixture of bees that go with a swarm; and they need younger wax producers which WILL go. There is usually a good number of flyers that remain with the old colony.

 

[Teemore]

Mystery solved at least. We all learn from that.

I've been keeping bees for nearly 11 seasons and I still make mistakes. The most stupid this year was to persist with aggressive bees. Requeening is now a challenge with trying to unite colonies with so many supers on. You live and learn
Good luck with the other hive.

"unite" individual supers to different colonies.... removes the really heavy lifting and means you just have to deal with the brood box. If I had an agressive colony still around at this time of the year, I would split it up into Nucs and add new queens to those. Let us all know how you get on with uniting.

 

[pargyle]

There is a mixture of bees that go with a swarm; and they need younger wax producers which WILL go. There is usually a good number of flyers that remain with the old colony.

Yes, but this wasn't a swarm ... it was a Nuc split off with a queen cell after (possibly) the original hive swarmed. If you move frames with brood with nurse bees on them into another box they don't normally all abscond ... or return to the original hive ...