QC with royal jelly without egg/larvae?

[acabee]

hi,
just looking through strong, fiesty hive.
From swarm in May with this year's queen.
Hive has plenty of stores and brood in all stages.
Saw a queen cup near bottom of frame to one side.
Cup is not drawn out yet in the typical hanging down of completed QC.
It does have royal jelly, but no larvae visible in it / floating.
Doesn't look like a supersedure due to low position on frame.

Two questions:
1 Do bees sometime construct a cup and add royal jelly, but queen does not lay in it?
2 Is prescence of royal jelly in a queen cup on its own (ie no larvae that I can see) an indication of swarming intent?

I think my next action should be to re-inspect in 3 days to see if this cup has larvae and if need be do an AS. All seems rather late for swarming, but who knows this year

acabee

 

[Poly Hive]

I think your thinking is a little erroneous.

The queen lays an egg in the cup and if the bees allow it to hatch they then feed it with Royal Jelly.

If there is RJ in the cup then the betting here is that there is a larvae too, possibly the light was not right for you to see it.

PH

 

[Lorenz]

Poly is correct. I sometimes wonder how they get the food underneath the larva.

When an egg hatches the larva is tiny - indeed the size of an egg, and it is translucent, so yuou can't see them always.

Regarding supercedure, the position on the frame is not so critical. At this time of year i would count 3 or fewer charged queencells as supercedure and leave them to get on with it.

 

[acabee]

Thanks PH - I did wonder if there could be an egg somewhere on/in the RJ. So if I go with Lorenz's reply (thanks Lorenz), the small number (less than 3) would suggest supersedure. So I should leave alone....?

I really don't won't this lot swarming....

acabee

 

[itma]

hi,
just looking through strong, fiesty hive.
From swarm in May with this year's queen.
Hive has plenty of stores and brood in all stages.
Saw a queen cup near bottom of frame to one side.
Cup is not drawn out yet in the typical hanging down of completed QC.
It does have royal jelly, but no larvae visible in it / floating.
...

This year's queen?

If this lot was a collected swarm, they would (should) have been headed by the old queen.
So how come you know she's "this year's queen"?


An older (NOT this year's) queen might well be due for supercedure ...

 

[Into the lions den]

An older (NOT this year's) queen might well be due for supercedure ...

This years queens are superceding extensively after taking so long to mate. We have seen at least a hundred of this seasons queens headed for immediate replacement.

 

[chickendave]

This year's queen?

If this lot was a collected swarm, they would (should) have been headed by the old queen.
So how come you know she's "this year's queen"?


An older (NOT this year's) queen might well be due for supercedure ...

Will only be headed by the old queen if it was a prime swarm ( which the OP did not state) so could be this years queen

 

[Andy Duff]

I think your thinking is a little erroneous.

The queen lays an egg in the cup and if the bees allow it to hatch they then feed it with Royal Jelly.

If there is RJ in the cup then the betting here is that there is a larvae too, possibly the light was not right for you to see it.

PH

gets my vote for most tactful and least controversial reply award of the year

 

[acabee]

She is this year's queen - from a cast swarm. She's been laying very well (a very strong colony).

So from this thread I learn:

- that supersedure cells can be anywhere on the frame - it's the number that's important to determine whether swarm or supersedure
- that a QC with royal jelly in it is 'charged' whether or not I can see an egg/larvae.
- that this year has been a difficult year for mating.
- that PH can indeed be wonderfully tactful

thanks all

acabee

 

[Poly Hive]

Thank you.

PH

 

[Madge]

If Acabee allows this cell to develop, is the new queen likely to become properly mated; and why would they want to replace a queen he says is laying well?

 

[For want of a better word]

This year's queen?

3 swarms that have arrived in my back garden have had yellow paint or numbered disc on them....... this years queens or ?

These bees certainly are not reading the BBKA monthy notes.. they should all be shutting down for winter and being treated for varroa before all getting 20kg of 2:1 best white cane sugar syrup! (620ml pure water to 2kg sugar.. should I use distilled?)
not bringing in a nectar flow and doing Olympic breeding and swarming!

 

[acabee]

Just a quick update on this thread.... my QC was capped 9 days ago. Did not inspect brood yesterday for risk of mucking up emerging queen / possible mating flights yesterday this week.

As there has not been a swarm issued at all before or since capping (famous last words!?), can I reasonably conclude that this is a supersedure event rather than swarm intent?

acabee

 

[Beeyonce]

Can't offer any advice I'm afraid but just words of comfort. I had a queen who mated after 7 weeks, laid up 7 frames (when I turned my back and went on holiday, lol!) and then was superseded. From replies I've had to posts on here (thanks, peeps) I am working on the theory that she didn't get 'properly' mated. Am now waiting to see if this latest virgin can get jiggy in time....I'll be interested to see how you get on too.

 

[greengumbo]

I have had a similar issue. This years queen took 7 weeks to get going then when she was laying nicely they promptly supercedured her after a week. The new queen hung around for 4 weeks and then was a drone layer.

Third queen of the year now.

Some first season. It can only get better - yeah ?

At least they are talking about an indian summer.

Good luck !