QC Problem? Is it all over?!?

[malawi2854]

Hello all,

My bees swarmed over the first bank holiday weekend - they created a lot of queen cells - and on advice, I removed all but a couple.

I then decided I would take the opportunity of having all these queen cells, and still a surprisingly strong colony to split it, and create my 2nd colony.

I had the main colony, with a capped QC in, and the new colony, with a capped QC, a frame of brood, frame of stores, and a frame of bees shook in for good measure.

On inspecting them carefully today - I have found the QC's in both colony's looking like the attached picture.

I cannot help but feel this is not a good sign.

Is it queen buying time?


What a nightmare!

 

[malawi2854]

Sorry to bump my own thread like this - but I really could do with some help - I am aware that if the queens are gone, I need to get hold of some new queens ASAP.

I didn't provide much detail in the previous post - the queen cells, as you can see in the picture are opened at the wrong end, and are completely empty. One had a worked in it head first, I assume cleaning, or polishing off remaining royal jelly or similar?

 

[VEG]

Can you beg a frame of eggs off someone? If not then buy a queen in.

 

[malawi2854]

I can certainly try - and yes, if I can't get eggs, am happy to buy queens in. To be honest, I would probably just go right ahead and buy queens - that way, they are pre-mated, and "ready to go"... giving both colonies the best chances.

Any idea what has happened though?

I didn't search through the large colony, as they are rather upset without a queen, and get angry rather quickly... but I had a good look through my split, and no sign of HRH in there... I was clinging onto hope that maybe the workers had released them, and they reversed out... (hey, give me a break - I'm desperate!)

 

[BKF Admin]

Are you sure you dont have a virgin on the loose?
Try a test frame and see if they make queen cells,its better than waisting a purchased queen.

 

[malawi2854]

Are you sure you dont have a virgin on the loose?
Try a test frame and see if they make queen cells,its better than waisting a purchased queen.

No, not at all sure!

If I had looked in the hive today, and the OTHER end of the cell had been open, I'd have merrily felt proud of my little bees, and gone away a happy beekeeper, not even bothering to look for the queen.

But seeing as it's open the wrong way around, and there was no obvious sign of a queen in the smaller colony at least, I am in a state of blind panic!

I'll admit that I've never actually seen a virgin queen, so no idea how much smaller they appear compared to one in full lay. So yes, entirely possible she is in there... I will say that the larger colony seemed a little calmer than last time I looked - but that could just be me... or the nice weather today.

Would it be worth going through the small colony VERY thoroughly (and carefully!), to see if I can find a queen?
It's a very small colony, so shouldn't be difficult - but if someone has a photo, or can describe what she looks like (compared to a "normal" mated queen), that would be helpful!

 

[Tom Bick]

It may be good to get a frame with eggs even if you are intending to buy a queen it will give the bees something to focus on as with produce a queen cell or two, if you can get a queen in fast time all well and good but a delay and you may have laying workers on your hands and then it is very bad news for you hive.

 

[VEG]

If there was a worker in the cell then the queen has hatched this sometimes happens and for some reason they seal a worker in there. Get a frame of eggs if they make cells then you can either leave them to it or buy in a mated queen. You will have to make sure that there is no virgin there as she may well kill in a bought queen.

 

[oliver90owner]

One had a worked in it head first, I assume cleaning, or polishing off remaining royal jelly or similar?

Presumably a queen vacated the cell before the worker went in?

This is a beehaus? You should have shaken in a lot more bees than you think necessary as the flying bees would return to the original entrance.

Are both sides of the beehaus absolutely bee-tight from each other? Any hole the queen can get through to the other side will be death for any developing queen.

Have you missed a queen cell? Easy to do.

Did you brush the bees off the frames? If you shook the bees off the queen cells may well be damaged.

I would think you have a virgin somewhere. A test frame is the way to go, as usual.

Just don't panic. If the queens are lost there is time to correct the situation. Just might cost time and/or money, but no particular problem if you can get some eggs/young brood to keep the hive balanced until sorting the queen situation.

You may well finish up with a scrub queen which may need changing later; she would do for the time being, but it may not come to that.

A week will make little odds.

Don't open up until late in the afternoon as the queen, if there, may be about to go on a mating flight.

Above all, don't PANICCCCCC.......

Regards, RAB

 

[malawi2854]

Presumably a queen vacated the cell before the worker went in?

I've no idea - that's my problem - I don't know if the queen LEFT, or if she was REMOVED! I was under the impression they had to come out head first?

This is a beehaus? You should have shaken in a lot more bees than you think necessary as the flying bees would return to the original entrance.

Yes it is, and I put 2 frames full of bees in, and shook another - there are now approx. 2 full frames of bees in the smaller colony.

Are both sides of the beehaus absolutely bee-tight from each other? Any hole the queen can get through to the other side will be death for any developing queen.

As best I can tell, yes. They wern't last week (that division board is truly rubbish!) I made a few tweaks to placement etc, and I believe it was beetight from last weekend onwards.

Have you missed a queen cell? Easy to do.

Anything is possible - but I don't THINK so. Certainly not in the smaller colony, I checked doubly hard in there!

Did you brush the bees off the frames? If you shook the bees off the queen cells may well be damaged.

No frames holding a queen cell were shaken - those were just moved over, and put, bees and all into the new colony.

You may well finish up with a scrub queen...

Sorry - what is a scrub queen? Is that a queen they make from eggs that are too old to really be sensibly used?

Above all, don't PANICCCCCC.......

I will try - but my bees do have me in a near constant state of panic at all times!



Thank you, RAB, and all others - you truly are heaven-sent!

I will try and get hold of a test frame from my association - hopefully someone can help me out!

 

[jf11]

I would say it is highly possible that when you split the colony the sudden loss of bees and brood would of made the remaining colony break down the QC as there is no need to swarm anymore this may of been done by the workers or alternatively the queen may have killed off the virgin yet to hatch from the cell. Also a virgin queen is very easy to miss so put in a test frame before taking anymore action. Hope this helps

 

[rae]

You are not alone in your frustrations. I am finding this queen thing very wearing this year. I have a couple of colonies who seem absolutely determined to thwart any attempt to get them queenright. They've had test frames, they've built queen cells, they've torn them down, they've rejected new queens and still they have no brood. Thus far, none of our AS splits have gone queenright, early days for brood, but not looking great so far.

On the plus side, the colonies that are working are working well. We've just filled a 40 litre bucket with honey!

 

[malawi2854]

Quick update for anyone interested...

Had a beekeeping friend over today (thanks Pete!), who has somewhat more experience with actual live bees than me (!!!).

He had a good look through both my colonies, and could find no evidence of a queen.

He was good enough to pick up a couple of mated queens for me from a supplier not too far away, and so now, hopefully, both my colonies will release my new queens... accept them, and they'll merrily start laying.

I guess I'll find out on Sunday!!!