Q- and Necessity of frame of eggs test

[Spikedog]

I have a colony which appears Q- – No eggs for 7 days – and laying area being filled with nectar even the free cells in and about the pollen stores plus Bees have become more aggressive. I need to combine with a weaker but striving (frames of eggs). Is it essential in light of the foregoing signs to test with a frame of eggs to confirm Q- ? If they build Q cells it will be of no avail as no drone for fertilising. I ask for reasons of time – They are already 7 days Q- and I had laying worker problems some years past which I don’t want to repeat and the test will take time and give them hope – Any advice?

 

[Luka22]

Not that I am an expert, but I had my first inspection this year 2 weeks ago. 2 looked Q-, since there was no Brood, one had only very few Drone Brood and in the Cells multiple Eggs, but nothing else. I then thought about combining, but was scared about a DLW.

Nevertheless, I added a Test frame to both Hives. A week later, no QC's, no Brood. So, either there was a Queen or the DLW caused it.

We emptied the Hive out away from the Hive Location and waited. In the evening the bees had still not returned, so I decided to take the blanket they were sitting on and move it back into the Hive (trying to shake as many bees into the Hive), because I had the suspicion that maybe there was a Queen and not a DLW and she was sitting there so nobody wanted to leave her.

Next day I opened the Hive, the Blanket was still full of bees. I put it outside and checked each Frame, no Queen. I then checked the blanket and there she was. I think I could have killed her about 10 times with all I had done, but she was ok so I put her into the Hive. I checked today, she was walking around, but still no Brood.

So.... is a Test Frame working 100%? I would say in my case Yes, a Queen is there, but no brood. The Test Frame told me she was there and if I had combined, because I just assumed that could have caused a problem.

After that I checked the second Hive again, because again no QC's and no Brood and again after a while I found a Queen. Rather small and not marked (she should have been red), so she was not easy to spot. I checked her today and she now good very few eggs, at least a start I hope.

So is a Test Frame a good approach? I would say so, because at least it makes you more careful and makes you think about the situation twice...

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I have a colony which appears Q- – No eggs for 7 days – and laying area being filled with nectar even the free cells in and about the pollen stores plus Bees have become more aggressive. I need to combine with a weaker but striving (frames of eggs). Is it essential in light of the foregoing signs to test with a frame of eggs to confirm Q- ? If they build Q cells it will be of no avail as no drone for fertilising. I ask for reasons of time – They are already 7 days Q- and I had laying worker problems some years past which I don’t want to repeat and the test will take time and give them hope – Any advice?

It's nothing to do with making a new queen - it's to confirm the absence of one. Do you want to take the risk of uniting this one (with maybe a not so good queen) to another colony, the queens fighting and the dud winning?
Doubtful you'll get laying workers in the time a test frame works (less than a week)
Bear one thing in mind. The only definite indication of a test frame is if they build QC's - indicating no queen. If they don't build any it doesn't neccessarily mean they have one.
Me? I'd give it a little time, try a test frame and after, if still no eggs I'd consider just shaking them out and leave them beg their way into the other hive - it's amazing how quickly and peacfully they do this

 

[For want of a better word]

How about a modified AS... then merge?

Shake all the bees in your ? q- colony into a brood box with drawn frames, stick a q excluder on top, and the original frames ( may be some brood???) on top
wait 24 hrs.
Then take top box full of bees and place on top of your q+ colony with a sheet or two of the Financial times between the boxes.

Bees will merge, and boost the Q+ colony.

Box of bees on original site will either remain eggless if no queen... or q may start to lay?

Feed them and you can always put a new queen to them later?


Yeghes da

 

[Hawklord]

You had eggs 7 days ago? Are these worker brood? I think it takes about 4 weeks being q- before laying workers. Also I think adding frames of eggs subdues laying workers.

 

[oliver90owner]

+1 to JBM.

It is a test, not a cure. That much should be clear from the term - test frame! Simple beekeeping, simple description.

Note he says he would 'consider', not that he would automatically do it blindly. Obviously some thought involved there, too.

 

[Finman]

.
7 days without eggs and no queen cells. It looks like there is superceded virgin in the hive queen cell is hidden so that you have not noticed it.

It takes 10 days when new queen starts to lay, if weathers are good gor mating, 20C and dunny.

 

[Finman]

How about a modified AS... then merge?

Shake all the bees in your ? q- colony into a brood box with drawn frames, stick a q excluder on top, and the original frames ( may be some brood???) on top
wait 24 hrs.
Then take top box full of bees and place on top of your q+ colony with a sheet or two of the Financial times between the boxes.

Bees will merge, and boost the Q+ colony.

Box of bees on original site will either remain eggless if no queen... or q may start to lay?

Feed them and you can always put a new queen to them later?


Yeghes da

Holy cow!

 

[For want of a better word]

Holy cow!

Finnie I should explain...
Two hive owners just love the complexity of the beekeeping hobby in England.
The more complicated and mystic it can be made the better... on a par with fly fishing for grayling... or riding penny farthing bicycles... gives extensive bragging rights in the pub!!!

Yeghes da

 

[Finman]

.
As we say: Put the accident to recycle

 

[BeeJayBee]

If they build Q cells it will be of no avail as no drone for fertilising.

At this time of year, even this year, there will be drones from other colonies and even more by the time a new queen takes her mating flights.