Prompted by another post A heads UP!

[Poly Hive]

A heads up going into the active season. Bees can move very fast under the right conditions so from now on it pays to be on your toes and to be prepared. meaning? For every colony you have you will need 3 supers. You will need spare frames deep and shallow, wax to suit and frame nails. You will possibly need enough spare kit to artificially swarm your colonies. You will need clearer boards and access to extraction equipment. If this is your first extraction season there are videos on you tube showing you some of the pitfalls. Oh and by fast I have seen a super filled and sealed in three days. That is 30 pounds of honey. So have you got the above? If not.... disaster awaits.

Also posted on the SBA and BBA pages of FB.

PH

 

[Teebeeaitch]

I guess by disaster you mean swarms. Is the occurrence of such really a disaster. Maybe for the commercial minded beek it is but for the back yard beek, it's all part of a very enjoyable game. Its the best bit about having bees for me.

 

[Hachi]

I guess by disaster you mean swarms. Is the occurrence of such really a disaster. Maybe for the commercial minded beek it is but for the back yard beek, it's all part of a very enjoyable game. Its the best bit about having bees for me.

Letting them swarm???????

 

[Little John]

I guess by disaster you mean swarms. Is the occurrence of such really a disaster. Maybe for the commercial minded beek it is but for the back yard beek, it's all part of a very enjoyable game. Its the best bit about having bees for me.

I think that comment speaks volumes.

Swarming is, of course, a natural phenonomenon - but - within Britain in the 21st Century, honeybee swarms are faced with the major problem of setting-up a new home within a highly unnatural environment, for the days of huge ancient forests with their aged damaged trees are long gone ...
So where exactly do swarms of the 21st Century set up home - or perhaps that's of little interest to a certain type of bee-'keeper' ?

With luck, an anxious householder - and with some inconvenience - may be able to contact a beekeeping organisation in order to arrange a swarm collection. Many will do this for free - but if not, then there will be an expense - either for someone to collect that swarm, or to destroy it. Swarms away from towns may face an uncertain future and perish, either due to exposure or from varroa infestation.

Accidental swarming may be inevitable from time to time, for we are all capable of misjudgement - but - to deliberately allow honeybees to swarm is (imo) both highly irresponsible and anti-social, and is essentially no different than dropping litter or fly-tipping, and by so doing generate a problem others will be required to clear up.
LJ

 

[Eyeman]

I think that comment speaks volumes.

Swarming is, of course, a natural phenonomenon - but - within Britain in the 21st Century, honeybee swarms are faced with the major problem of setting-up a new home within a highly unnatural environment, for the days of huge ancient forests with their aged damaged trees are long gone ...
So where exactly do swarms of the 21st Century set up home - or perhaps that's of little interest to a certain type of bee-'keeper' ?

With luck, an anxious householder - and with some inconvenience - may be able to contact a beekeeping organisation in order to arrange a swarm collection. Many will do this for free - but if not, then there will be an expense - either for someone to collect that swarm, or to destroy it. Swarms away from towns may face an uncertain future and perish, either due to exposure or from varroa infestation.

Accidental swarming may be inevitable from time to time, for we are all capable of misjudgement - but - to deliberately allow honeybees to swarm is (imo) both highly irresponsible and anti-social, and is essentially no different than dropping litter or fly-tipping, and by so doing generate a problem others will be required to clear up.
LJ

Bit OTT & judgmental.
I am for putting fun back into beekeeping.
Swarms can be a nuisance so can small children and neighbours dogs.
I'm waiting for my first phone call as a local swarm collector- never charge.
Swarms have as good a chance if not a better chance of survival than the bees kept by some beekeepers I know- I know where I'd take my chances.
No all swarms survive but those that make it through to spring may have a better chance of managing varroa than we think- residing at some distance from other colonies , residing in a fixed size cavity makes swarming again highly likely- didn't Tom Seeley recently publish an article on the subject.

 

[enrico]

I think that comment speaks volumes.

Swarming is, of course, a natural phenonomenon - but - within Britain in the 21st Century, honeybee swarms are faced with the major problem of setting-up a new home within a highly unnatural environment, for the days of huge ancient forests with their aged damaged trees are long gone ...
So where exactly do swarms of the 21st Century set up home - or perhaps that's of little interest to a certain type of bee-'keeper' ?

With luck, an anxious householder - and with some inconvenience - may be able to contact a beekeeping organisation in order to arrange a swarm collection. Many will do this for free - but if not, then there will be an expense - either for someone to collect that swarm, or to destroy it. Swarms away from towns may face an uncertain future and perish, either due to exposure or from varroa infestation.

Accidental swarming may be inevitable from time to time, for we are all capable of misjudgement - but - to deliberately allow honeybees to swarm is (imo) both highly irresponsible and anti-social, and is essentially no different than dropping litter or fly-tipping, and by so doing generate a problem others will be required to clear up.
LJ

Way over the top. You keep bees in the way you keep bees but to preach to others that they are irresponsible is so rude and wrong. We can't all be perfect like you and maybe we just don't want to be
E

 

[Cussword]

Bit OTT & judgmental.
I am for putting fun back into beekeeping.
Swarms can be a nuisance so can small children and neighbours dogs.

I'm happy to pick up swarms, but I draw the line at small children and neighbour's dogs.

LJ does have a point about the odd beekeeper that doesn't try to manage swarming. They should at least be ready to catch them.
It's irresponsible not to.

 

[Quis Custodiet]

What Little John has written is neither "over the top" nor unreasonable. I can understand someone who collects swarms wanting other people's bees to swarm. We have several of those collectors here.........they always seem to have overwintered nucs available from late May!
Letting one's bees swarm intentionally shows a lack of social responsibility. I get blamed for every swarm within a ten mile radius of here, just because I am perceived as having perhaps more than the typical number of hives. When a swarm enters a cavity in the structure of a house, the consequences for the householder can be both expensive and very inconvenient.

 

[Little John]

Way over the top. You keep bees in the way you keep bees but to preach to others that they are irresponsible is so rude and wrong. We can't all be perfect like you and maybe we just don't want to be
E

I clearly said 'imo' - in my opinion. I reserve the right to hold my own opinion, and express it whenever appropriate.

If you consider expressing an opinion to be "preaching", then heaven help us, for no-one would ever be able to express their own views on this forum.

'Rude' and 'wrong' are your value-judgements about my post because you appear to hold a different view. You are of course perfectly entitled to express that opinion ... in exactly the same way as I express mine.
LJ

 

[enrico]

Fair comment to my post, thanks. Just felt that calling a poster who has only made 100 posts 'irresponsible' was a little strong for the situation. Hope you haven't frightened them off. There are more subtle ways to put an opinion imho !!!!!
E

 

[peteinwilts]

I clearly said 'imo' - in my opinion. I reserve the right to hold my own opinion, and express it whenever appropriate.

If you consider expressing an opinion to be "preaching", then heaven help us, for no-one would ever be able to express their own views on this forum.

'Rude' and 'wrong' are your value-judgements about my post because you appear to hold a different view. You are of course perfectly entitled to express that opinion ... in exactly the same way as I express mine.
LJ

It is also in my opinion, and would never condone purposeful swarm release in the UK.
I also do not think your post was too strong.

Swarms would find a natural home in an old tree in a forest. Without suitable homes, they will attempt to house themselves in chimneys and in cavitys in walls.

A swarm is a wonderful sight, but for many members of the public it is terrifying, and the 'part of the game' often means destruction of the swarmed colony if they choose an unsuitable home and financial costs to the victims. (I choose the word 'victims', because that is exactly what they are)

I am regularly called out to bees that have made a nuisance of themselves. I have destroyed many more nests than I own, and hate doing it.
The homeowners involved usually feel extremely guilty , but left to their own devices the bees can cause damage to the property, causing damage costs or insurance costs to the homeowner.

They create bad politics for neighbours and give ALL beekeepers a bad name, particularly if they hit the press.
I have had to defend myself regarding miffed homeowners, knowing damn well the nuisance swarm was not from my bees.

There is talk about hive registration (which purposefully releasing swarms may premote), and anyone that purposefully allows swarms are leaving yourself wide open to law suits by 'irresponsible beekeeping', or from receiving an ASBO by your local council.
By practising responsible beekeeping, even if you lose the odd swarm, you are at least trying to protect yourself from the above.

I assist in teaching 'natural beekeepers' once a year, but pose the argument regarding swarm control and teach had to try and prevent it. My part of the training offers an alternative method or a hybrid approach.
I hear the phrase 'its natural'. primarily most of us keep bees in an unnatural environment, and therefore it is not.

I cannot think of any positive aspect over purposefully releasing swarms in anywhere but dense woodland in the UK, and even then questionable as they may become a disease risk to others.

This is my opinion, and the forum is for debates. If you believe I am wrong then say so, but it is equally important to explain why....

 

[Poly Hive]

Very well put and I cannot agree more.

PH

 

[JWF]

I agree PH & peteinwilts

When your neighbour's small children get stung by a swarm emanating from your hives they would be quite right to raise issue with you - and as your lack of reasonable care results in an impairment of their own enjoyment of their property they will be quite within their legal rights to seek redress from you.

 

[enrico]

I Don't think I said I condoned letting bees swarm. I think I said that the manner in which the poster was critisised was over the top. I say again, there are ways to tell people what is right and wrong in your opinion, but to call them 'irresponsible' does not seem to be very polite.
I appreciate everyone's opinion, I read, and sometimes agree and sometimes don't but surely a bit of diplomacy wouldn't go adrift. I wouldn't like it if I was called 'irresponsible' , we hear so much about people feeling bullied on line, if they leave the forum they will never hear your opinions.
Enough said, I will say no more. Sorry of i upset you all and made you believe I agreed or disagreed with any real content.
E

 

[Swarm]

I Don't think I said I condoned letting bees swarm. I think I said that the manner in which the poster was critisised was over the top. I say again, there are ways to tell people what is right and wrong in your opinion, but to call them 'irresponsible' does not seem to be very polite.
I appreciate everyone's opinion, I read, and sometimes agree and sometimes don't but surely a bit of diplomacy wouldn't go adrift. I wouldn't like it if I was called 'irresponsible' , we hear so much about people feeling bullied on line, if they leave the forum they will never hear your opinions.
Enough said, I will say no more. Sorry of i upset you all and made you believe I agreed or disagreed with any real content.
E

I understood the gist of your post, enrico. Far too many experts calling others here lately.

 

[peteinwilts]

I Don't think I said I condoned letting bees swarm. I think I said that the manner in which the poster was critisised was over the top. I say again, there are ways to tell people what is right and wrong in your opinion, but to call them 'irresponsible' does not seem to be very polite.
I appreciate everyone's opinion, I read, and sometimes agree and sometimes don't but surely a bit of diplomacy wouldn't go adrift. I wouldn't like it if I was called 'irresponsible' , we hear so much about people feeling bullied on line, if they leave the forum they will never hear your opinions.
Enough said, I will say no more. Sorry of i upset you all and made you believe I agreed or disagreed with any real content.
E

for me, an 'irresponsible driver', is one that drives without due care and attention, and is a potential danger to themselves or others. Many people will associate a type of car with a driving technique. i.e "bl**dy Audi Drivers"
Many Audi drivers are responsible drivers. (I saw one once! )

for me, an 'irresponsible beekeeper' is one that keeps bees without thought for the bees, and can be a danger to property or other people. members of the public who experience such techniques coin the phrase "bl**dy beekeepers"


I am in another organisation (not bees), that if caught being purposefully being a hazard to others, or bringing the sport\club into disrepute, it will bring a ban for life.
I see no problem with that.

IMHO Purposefully allowing bees to swarm, particularly in a built up or suburban area is irresponsible and can bring the hobby\clubs\business's into disrepute.
The word is not polite, but it is appropriate. Other more polite words could be used, such as careless, thoughtless.

All beekeepers start somewhere, and even the most cautious or expert of beekeepers will lose an occasional swarm.

If there is one irresponsible beekeeper out of a hundred, the one beekeeper will be remembered by members of the public.
We all have a duty to keep bees in a responsible way.
This is the beginner section of the forum, and is the first thing a new beekeeper should understand. I have no doubt many newcomers will already have this skill...

 

[peteinwilts]

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...keeping-is-to-blame-for-unwanted-urban-swarms

 

[jaybee76]

I entirely agree that making no effort to prevent swarms is irresponsible. I think we'd all agree that if I was a beef farmer, leaving a gate open and just letting my bull go for a wander would be irresponsible. It is irresponsible just to take my dog for a walk and not pick up any mess - I worm it so there's minimal health risk, and it won't even cost anyone any money if they step in it unlike a swarm getting under a flat roof or into a chimney.

As beekeepers we do have a *responsibility* to protect others from physical harm or from damage to their property. Swarms have happened to all of us, but to treat letting them swarm as part of the "fun" is definitely not responsible.

 

[Millet]

A heads up going into the active season. Bees can move very fast under the right conditions so from now on it pays to be on your toes and to be prepared. meaning? For every colony you have you will need 3 supers. You will need spare frames deep and shallow, wax to suit and frame nails. You will possibly need enough spare kit to artificially swarm your colonies. You will need clearer boards and access to extraction equipment. If this is your first extraction season there are videos on you tube showing you some of the pitfalls. Oh and by fast I have seen a super filled and sealed in three days. That is 30 pounds of honey. So have you got the above? If not.... disaster awaits.

Also posted on the SBA and BBA pages of FB.

PH

Luckily i have all of the above and more but the way the weather has been lately i do not think i will be needing the extractor on the north east coast, i have a bait hive and two nucs and three more empty national hives with all the equipment to go with them so that is the swarm side of things covered, but then again i had it covered last year and the little gits still swarmed into a bait hive a few days after i did a artificial swarm..

 

[Zante]

I have only one super per hive (well not exactly true, see below...) but the colonies are just starting up, and they have only foundation that needs to be drawn, so even if I do get to put a super on this year I doubt I will have this problem.

If push comes to shove, though, I do have available 6 brood boxes and 6 supers (frames to be assessed) that belong to the owners of the land I have bees on, they offered them for me to use. They are pre-varroa material, and the brood boxes have solid, non removable floors, so not very useful for manipulations (good for bait hives though). The supers are good, and before I got my bees I spent an afternoon with a flamer sterilising the wood.

Now the frames are in several plastic bags because there is plenty of old wax (10+ years old!) to be melted off them. Some are quite badly damaged, some might be useful, but I'll assess them when I've melted the wax off of them. I have an old refrigerator to build a solar melter out of, which will I'll probably do this weekend.