Price of varroa treatment

[Hawklord]

IMHO it's a case of rotating the different treatments available and not relying on 1 method only. There was resistance to Apiguard but it works if only used once every 3-4 years. How far are the breeders on with that illusive resistant perfect bee?

 

[Finman]

Perhaps it is a dream Finman, but, when the treatments you rely on today are no longer effective, you'll be glad that breeders invested our time and efforts developing a bee that can deal with varroa.

You do not understand, that if a company developes its products and services, it is done in small development groups and only small resources is used in developing. Couple of percents. All staff is not developers. They do work what to sell.

It makes no idea that all beekeepers are developing varroa resistant bees with method "do nothing". They just do not know better. They seldom even select their queens... From two mongrel alternatives....

What they can do is to buy non swarming bee stocks. They exists lots. But they do not buy.
Then buy nosema tolerant bees, and stop thymol feeding. But they not not.
In my country no one treat hives against nosema. They do not even have heard about thymol treatment.

 

[Finman]

.
This thread was meant to compare prices of varroa treatments.

It was not meant to paint horizont and then soon go to Tamar Valley to breed native black hot blooded ones derived from last Ice Ace.

 

[Finman]

Perhaps it is a dream Finman, but, when the treatments you rely on today are no longer effective, you'll be glad that breeders invested our time and efforts developing a bee that can deal with varroa.

I know lots of beebreeders and I buy their good queens.

15 years ago I bought mite resistant queens. When I treated them, the hives had as much mites as normal hives.

i have studied genetics in university. That is why I understand about those things.

I cannot harvest 100-150 kg honey/hive by dreaming. That is my goal and my dream.
.

 

[For want of a better word]

.
This thread was meant to compare prices of varroa treatments.

It was not meant to paint horizont and then soon go to Tamar Valley to breed native black hot blooded ones derived from last Ice Ace.

As far as I am aware there are not any breeders of Cornish native black bees in the Tamar Valley... mostly bees from Italian stock.

The Natives are extant West of the Lhyner River.... All for one and one for all

Yeghes da

 

[Finman]

.
Thanks to varroa, it killed all black bees from Finland. It has been the best bee breeder. Bee nursing has been since then like keeping aquarium.

 

[BrianO]

£0
I don't treat. It would distort my selection criteria

B+

Love to hear as to how your selection process is progressing, what are your % winter losses ?.

Assuming , as you post infers, you do not treat any colonies ? Nucs neither ?

How long have you been doing this ?

 

[B+.]

Love to hear as to how your selection process is progressing, what are your % winter losses ?.

Assuming , as you post infers, you do not treat any colonies ? Nucs neither ?

How long have you been doing this ?

The last time I treated my colonies was about 1993. I don't remember exactly. I feed nucs (those still in a single Langstroth deep at the end of July) enough syrup to build them up for winter but all established colonies support themselves. They receive no further help.
The most recent figure I can give you is winter 2014, in which I lost 0 colonies (although I lost 2 queens during introduction in July 2014). The results of my other tests have already been disclosed in the Queen Rearing and Breeding section.

For the sake of completeness, I should add that I lost 6 queens during introduction in August 2015 (the queens were held up by a postal strike in Germany so the nucs were queenless so long some of them developed laying workers)

 

[sipa]

Surely it's the bees that have to beat varroa in the end.
Any prophylactic treatment is lessening the chance that bees will develop a coping strategy over time.

I know of some feral colonies that have been in the same site for many years, one up to more than 20 years.

These colonies must be doing something to cope.

 

[For want of a better word]

I know of some feral colonies that have been in the same site for many years, one up to more than 20 years.

Seems that there are feral sites that get inhabited by escapees from local beekeepers colonies.... seem to die out in three to four years... then another colony swarms in.
The varroa and associated virus gets them.
However we do seem to have some feral colony sites here in Cornwall that are occupied by Native Cornish black bees ( Amm) that seem to be continuously occupied... one monitored for 5 years+... resistant bees requeening by superceedure?

Swarm collected from this particular site seems to have nil varroa... will see if it overwinters!

Yeghes da

 

[Finman]

.
According researches varroa tolerant hives give 50% smaller yields.
As profit if may be many fold. Hives are not mite free and mites violate so much brood that you cannot make business with those bees.

It is same with natural combs. It takes too much energy from yields. Natural beekeeper believe that combs are made from fresh air.

You may sacrifice your honey yield for "future", which never comes.

And wintering with honey.... The most expencive style

But believing is essential part of beekeeping.

Kill the mites, do not count them.

 

[Plenty of honey]

Surely it's the bees that have to beat varroa in the end.
Any prophylactic treatment is lessening the chance that bees will develop a coping strategy over time.

I know of some feral colonies that have been in the same site for many years, one up to more than 20 years.

These colonies must be doing something to cope.

Yes I believe they are, have you seen the research done on how genetics have changed over the last 30 years in response to the arrival of Varroa. Black bees cope with it, I know, I swarm trap every year the native black bee here in Brittany.
We get good strong swarms, with strong queens. and yes Varroa, but they seem to do well, but boy are they generally miserable!!!

 

[B+.]

.
According researches varroa tolerant hives give 50% smaller yields.

Thats quite a sweeping statement Finman. Do you have a reference to support it? My experience has been quite the opposite.

 

[Finman]

Thats quite a sweeping statement Finman. Do you have a reference to support it? My experience has been quite the opposite.

There are couple of scientific researches in France and older in Holland.

So you get more honey when you some mites in hives? Don't be fool. Or what do you mean by opposite? What is opposite of - 50%.

If those bees are so good, why everybody does not use them?

And you have there varroa tolerant feral bees. They should be add to catalogue of "varroa tolerant bees of Europe".

 

[B+.]

There are couple of scientific researches in France and older in Holland.

So you get more honey when you some mites in hives? Don't be fool. Or what do you mean by opposite? What is opposite of - 50%.

If those bees are so good, why everybody does not use them?

And you have there varroa tolerant feral bees. They should be add to catalogue of "varroa tolerant bees of Europe".

I don't have varroa tolerant feral bees. What are you talking about?

You made the assertion that varroa tolerant bees produce 50% less honey. I said the opposite was true. Varroa tolerant bees live longer and gather more honey. I don't understand why you would think they produce less. It makes no sense.

 

[pargyle]

There are couple of scientific researches in France and older in Holland.

So you get more honey when you some mites in hives? Don't be fool. Or what do you mean by opposite? What is opposite of - 50%.

If those bees are so good, why everybody does not use them?

And you have there varroa tolerant feral bees. They should be add to catalogue of "varroa tolerant bees of Europe".

Why is it that you can never accept that some people are managing to keep bees successfully WITHOUT treating them for varroa ?

I recognise that your 'measure' of success is a colony that produces at least 200Kg of honey per hive per year but I think that success covers a broader spectrum ... honey at the rate the colony can produce without interference is all I seek. Bees that are easy to handle, that are healthy and free of disease, that are able to resist robbing by other colonies or wasps, a queen that lays a good pattern and is not either continually being superceded or swarming every time you turn your back. Bees that keep their home clean and are strong enough going into winter to survive ... and if there are a few varroa in the hive - they cope with it.

I know you response is going to be your usual insults about my time with the bees .. you are going to tell me that my bees will die .. as you have every year .. but guess what ... You were WRONG and you are still WRONG.

I have no problem with the way you want to keep bees but it's not everyone's way and those of us (A growing number) who choose an alternative path are finding that treatment free beekeeping IS possible .. and is often successful ... at least as successful as some people who treat and treat again and worry themselves to death every time they see a dead varroa on the board ... and then listen to you telling them they will have 10,000 mites within a month.

But what do I know ?

 

[Finman]

. I don't understand why you would think they produce less. It makes no sense.

I read from research. IT was explained there.

 

[B+.]

I read from research. IT was explained there.

Would you care to share what research you are referring to?

 

[Finman]

Why is it that you can never accept that some people are managing to keep bees successfully WITHOUT treating them for varroa ?

I recognise that your 'measure' of success is a colony that produces at least 200Kg of honey per hive per year but I think that success covers a broader spectrum ... honey at the rate the colony can produce without interference is all I seek. Bees that are easy to handle, that are healthy and free of disease, that are able to resist robbing by other colonies or wasps, a queen that lays a good pattern and is not either continually being superceded or swarming every time you turn your back. Bees that keep their home clean and are strong enough going into winter to survive ... and if there are a few varroa in the hive - they cope with it.

I know you response is going to be your usual insults about my time with the bees .. you are going to tell me that my bees will die .. as you have every year .. but guess what ... You were WRONG and you are still WRONG.

I have no problem with the way you want to keep bees but it's not everyone's way and those of us (A growing number) who choose an alternative path are finding that treatment free beekeeping IS possible .. and is often successful ... at least as successful as some people who treat and treat again and worry themselves to death every time they see a dead varroa on the board ... and then listen to you telling they they will have 10,000 mites within a month.

But what do I know ?

What you know.... Not very much when I read that flooding. But it has strong feelings!
.

 

[pargyle]

I read from research. IT was explained there.

Don't believe everything you read on the internet ... there's a lot of rubbish spouted by people who really should have learned a bit over 50 years of beekeeping ...