Preparation for overwintering polynucs

[Finman]

no it isnt rubbish I 've measure the heat loss of well known finnish brands of poly and have infra-red thermographs showing the high heat loss though the hand holds.

You must understand that beekeeping is not heat measuring.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I remember as a kid running a stick along the bars of the tiger's cage in Bristol zoo. They made less of a fuss when their cage was rattled

 

[Finman]

no it isnt rubbish I 've measure the heat loss of well known finnish brands of poly and have infra-red thermographs showing the high heat loss though the hand holds.

They are in every country the same lay out. Yes, they need hand holds.

What is the meaning of heat loss? How many kilos sugar per winter?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

the ****** roof is only around 1.5cm thick (since it sits over a raised lip).

below are pics of the condensation before insulation (late nov), and the nuc before & after modification. The roof is made of thick ply offcuts (21mm i think so nice and sturdy). the roof metal was intended for a Langstroth roof.

I like the retro building material roof weights Dr S where did you get them? big T's or Maisies? I make all my roofs from 3/4" ply so no need for weighing down (sometimes struggle to lift the beggars!)

 

[ichbinpaul]

I remember as a kid running a stick along the bars of the tiger's cage in Bristol zoo. They made less of a fuss when their cage was rattled

I hope there is never blood spilled!?

 

[user 6228]

You must understand that beekeeping is not heat measuring.

but i'm not the beekeeper, i'm the beekeeper's in house physicist and engineer.

 

[user 6228]

They are in every country the same lay out. Yes, they need hand holds.

What is the meaning of heat loss? How many kilos sugar per winter?

been round that one before... sigh
i quote research and calculations , then you say because there not finnish, or are too old, and/or wrong, they know nothing,and are rubbish.

 

[beesknee]

nucs

I seem to manage with 12mm plywood although a bit of 25mm insulation in the roof.

 

[Finman]

been round that one before... sigh
i quote research and calculations , then you say because there not finnish, or are too old, and/or wrong, they know nothing,and are rubbish.

I did not understand a bit.

OK, you use your 12 mm plywood.

.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

I realise I'm risking my life but I today took delivery of a P@ynes poly brood box. Most of the box is 70mm thick but less than 1/4 of the box is 25mm handholds. The conductivity of expanded polystyrene is between 1/3 and 1/5 that of wood. The heat losses through the walls are going to be about 1/16 of those of 12mm wood, 1/8 of 25mm wood. Without the handholds it would be about 1/12 of 25mm wood.

 

[PBee]

........
You do not even understand, what winter means to bees.

First of all, it is a long period 6-7 months when bees cannot visit out at all.
You write there that your hives get pollen in December and in January. Ridiculous claim that you have winter there.
.

Is it not the case that it is easier to winter bees (and achieve high yields) in a continental climate with long cold winters where the cluster is undisturbed, and short hot summers making for more intense and reliable honey flows?

On the insulation debate - last winter was my first to have numbers of polyhives and nicot plastic hives wintering side by side. The nicot hives approximate conditions in wooden hives and over winter the clusters reduced in size. My impression at the time was they would struggle to be ready for any spring flow. The opposite was the case and these hives had some of the best yields in the first week of June when our brief 'spring' flow materialised.

From a paper in the JAS on wintering comparisons Buckfast(Bcf) and Amm crosses in insulated and uninsulated hives in Poland ......

Even harder overwintering conditions resulting from the lack of insulation did not adversely influence the pace of the springtime colony development of Bcf colonies, and insulating the hive may turn out to be superfluous as colonies that overwintered without insulation developed better than those with insulation.

 

[user 6228]

Is it not the case that it is easier to winter bees (and achieve high yields) in a continental climate with long cold winters where the cluster is undisturbed, and short hot summers making for more intense and reliable honey flows?

On the insulation debate - last winter was my first to have numbers of polyhives and nicot plastic hives wintering side by side. The nicot hives approximate conditions in wooden hives and over winter the clusters reduced in size. My impression at the time was they would struggle to be ready for any spring flow. The opposite was the case and these hives had some of the best yields in the first week of June when our brief 'spring' flow materialised.

From a paper in the JAS on wintering comparisons Buckfast(Bcf) and Amm crosses in insulated and uninsulated hives in Poland ......

Unfortunately this another poor piece of research in respect to insulation. It mentions straw mats but gives no thermal performance of the insulation
The level of insulation to give a good response has to be sufficient to half the heat loss or better. See villumstad 1976

 

[PBee]

If the paper attached is the one to which you refer, the uninsulated hives had a better Autumn yield. Subspecies traits also have to be factored in to any comparison.

 

[Finman]

.
When I bought my first polyhives, they were expencive 20 y ago. I looked carefully, what they do.
I used American type 3 cm thick wooden boxes too.

It was so easy to see how build up, swarming and ready to forage proceeded in my yard.

It took its own time when I realized what I can do with patty feeding and with electrict heating.
I can get 3-progress in build up with these things.

Allways build up needs pollen. 95% of beekeepers say that NO, but they are sure that continuous syrup feeding makes more brood.

Now I have used 3-frame poly mating nucs . I get better colonies in a month than these ply guys in whole 6 month summer.

 

[Finman]

.
Ridiculous. If you do not want to learn anything, bees are yours, not mine.

Winter preparations in July? And you have there 2 months time to build up your colonies?

I think that even poly can not help you.

Only which can help is good beekeeping books.

 

[itma]

I have an identical situation with bees from a cast swarm on 3 14x12 frames and building nicely.
Does anyone know if I can use two ekes stacked one on top of one another? I have one on the poly nuc already which makes the it suitable for my 14x12 set up, but I like the idea of being able to add extra insulation above the crown board within a second eke.

Payns national poly nuc ekes can be stacked as high as you like.
You need to stack quite a lot if you ever try to merge 14x12 nucs!
An extra eke as a 'feeder/insulation space is worthwhile (especially at sale prices.)




When you have a spare eke, try cutting down and attaching some rails to it. (I've glued - test your glue carefully - plastic rails. Others have screwed metal ones.)
Then you can compare whether you prefer the rails (and less of a prop problem with the frames) or having a bit of top beespace (and less of a prop problem with the coverboard).
You might even want to have a go at making your own feeder board that provides top space and enough rigidity to maintain it with a feeder in place.
Both these considerations apply particularly for trying to overwinter in these boxes. Take a look at DrStitson's photo earlier in this thread ...

 

[Finman]

.
I just bought new medium poly langstroth. The price was £8.
Where you get cheaper and better boxes, tell me.

It is really ridiculous if thise boxes are not enough insulated to you in +5C winter weather, when they are enough to us in -30C weather.

Medium boxes are not so thick as Langstroths. But there is no problem in wintering in mediums.

Splitting hairs, like we say here.

 

[Finman]

but i'm not the beekeeper, i'm the beekeeper's in house physicist and engineer.

That guys who sells Paradise hives, have 3000 hives.
He is engineer and has worked on Neste Oil Refineries in Porvoo before coming a beekeeper.

You derekm, yiou make your decisions without any knowledge. Really bad style.

Neste Oil Stations 20 km from Pradise Honey.

PH makes honey processing machines too
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE7eKXJJ4oc"]Vanina in honey extraction room - YouTube[/ame]




derekm, don't be so sure about your absolute skill.

.

 

[Finman]

.
What I want so say is that guys, a little bit respect to them
who run big business and do not waste time on these forums.

.

 

[sipa]

Any Poly hive is better for the bees than ANY Wooden hive for keeping bees dry and warm.

The rest is down to the skill of the beekeeper.

My dad always said "it's a poor workman who always blames his tools for a poor job"