Polys for double brood?

[domino]

I've tried full-size poly hives in the past and struggled to get on with them, but, I want to try again.

I run standard national double brood, what polys would be a good choice for this.

Also, is there a chart anywhere showing the relative thermal performance of these hives?

Thanks in advance

 

[Finman]

.
Main factor in double brood is a a good Queen, which lays about 15 frames. Brood boxes need space to pollen and honey too.

It is same what is the hive type. You may give two langstroths or three mediums. The size of laying space is essential, that you rear a big hive. Double brood itself does not make big hives.

 

[Ian123]

Ive alsways gone with swienty, abelo is another used by a few here...just google them up and see. Important point is they are compatible with your wooden hives.

 

[oliver90owner]

National frame number (11 or 12) or National footprint? Might limit your choices.

 

[Ian123]

Fame numbers dont matter, footprint/external dimensions do

 

[Angry_Mob]

Ive alsways gone with swienty, abelo is another used by a few here...just google them up and see. Important point is they are compatible with your wooden hives.

I've tried both those hives, Abelo is superior.

The Swienty also only takes 10, Abelo takes 11.

 

[Millet]

I have used Lyson/Abelo national brood and super boxes for a coupe of seasons now and i like them.. you have the added option of being able to use all your old wooden national boxes also with the Lyson boxes as they have the same footprint..

They also have hard plastic surfaces above and below so you do not destroy the poly boxes with the hive tool.

 

[Into the lions den]

They also have hard plastic surfaces above and below so you do not destroy the poly boxes with the hive tool.

Really?

Have had several thousand poly boxes for getting on for 20 years now........have never destroyed even ONE with the hive tool. IMproper use of the hive tool can even damage wooden hives.

The hard edges solve a problem that never existed in the first place and.... to the inexperienced with plain poly...instinctively sounds good.

Brings other issues along with it too.

Personal preference yes...but I really DONT like these hard skinned ones. Again it sounds counter intuitive but they are less tough than ones with a bit of give in them. Production process is different...and in a high level of handling situation such as we have the brittleness that comes with the hard skin is a real issue. When you DO break one it shatters and can be a difficult repair.

However I am more wary of makers that incorporate 'unique features' and would buy from ANY maker of bog standard kit before I made the error of taking from a makers whose 'little improvements' lock you in to the one brand.

Even this past month I bought a load of hive top feeders as they were the ones I liked. When they turned up they had had a couple of tweaks to the design...in response to 'beekeeper feedback'. Now they are a proper PITA and I wish I had not taken them.

They changed the depth of the feeder...now we need to feed twice in those as they will not take the 3 galls we give. They made it have two clear barriers that clip into place rather then just slid into place......now its a pain 'priming' the feeder so the bees find the syrup.

Stuff that looks like its been designed to accommodate all the whinges they get from single issue obsessives at bee fairs is rarely any damn good..................at least to large users who want to work quickly.

 

[Millet]

I like them and i am sticking with the Lyson boxes.. .. i have one colony that produces propalis for fun which i am dreading opening up come spring even with the plastic surfaces..

 

[sipa]

Talking about poly boxes or roofs breaking.... repairing these is no big deal.

We use "No Nonsense" water resistant wood adhesive from Screwfix. It bonds poly solid as a rock. Never had one break in the same spot again EVER !

 

[Madge]

Domino, there are two kinds of National poly: small footprint ones where the outside is the same as wooden ones, but the insides are smaller (Swienty, Abelo, and Paradise Boxes); and behemoths where the insides are the same as wooden ones.

I think the smaller ones are best and are also more compatible with wooden hives.

But you’re interested in double brood boxes. In that case, stay clear of Paradise Boxes. There is not enough space between the frames when stacked together. (Brood with a shallow on top is ok.) They are anyway awful to work with, and incompatible with all other makes of National hives.

I understand ITLD’s objections to Abelo, but I find them the easiest to work with. Swienty Nationals have bee-space problems; Abelos just work in all respects. I’ve used them for two or three years now and, so far, did not find brittleness to be a problem.

 

[Millet]

Domino, there are two kinds of National poly: small footprint ones where the outside is the same as wooden ones, but the insides are smaller (Swienty, Abelo, and Paradise Boxes); and behemoths where the insides are the same as wooden ones.

I think the smaller ones are best and are also more compatible with wooden hives.

But you’re interested in double brood boxes. In that case, stay clear of Paradise Boxes. There is not enough space between the frames when stacked together. (Brood with a shallow on top is ok.) They are anyway awful to work with, and incompatible with all other makes of National hives.

I understand ITLD’s objections to Abelo, but I find them the easiest to work with. Swienty Nationals have bee-space problems; Abelos just work in all respects. I’ve used them for two or three years now and, so far, did not find brittleness to be a problem.

The Lyson boxes are no different from ceder national boxes as far as going double brood go..

 

[simonforeman]

Can you use a normal wooden mesh floor on the Lyson bb??

 

[Beefriendly]

Personal preference yes...but I really DONT like these hard skinned ones. Again it sounds counter intuitive but they are less tough than ones with a bit of give in them. Production process is different...and in a high level of handling situation such as we have the brittleness that comes with the hard skin is a real issue. When you DO break one it shatters and can be a difficult repair.

Not sure what makes of poly hives shatter, but both Paynes poly (soft) and Abelo (hard) do not shatter. They just make clean breaks when dropped. I know I've broken and repaired several of both types over the years. Worst one broke into 4 separate bits...still in use today.
They are both quite easy to repair...I use gorilla glue (can use other types) and then some long screws to further strengthen the join.
It's the wooden ones that seem to shatter in my experience and they are virtually irreparable when broken.

 

[Beefriendly]

Can you use a normal wooden mesh floor on the Lyson bb??

Yes, they have an identical footprint to a National hive.

 

[Madge]

The Lyson boxes are no different from ceder national boxes as far as going double brood go..

Yes, they all work as doubles apart from, as I said, National Paradise Bee Boxes.

 

[Millet]

Can you use a normal wooden mesh floor on the Lyson bb??

Yes i do exactly that with my home made floors..

 

[Poly Hive]

I like Swienty and don't like Lyson. In Lyson the bees just failed to thrive and that was with three different colonies. I gave it away. If it works for you that's great and good for you but please just accept we all have different experiences and locations.

I run double Swientys and have never broken a roof yet. What on earth happened to achieve that??

PH

 

[Millet]

I like Swienty and don't like Lyson. In Lyson the bees just failed to thrive and that was with three different colonies. I gave it away. If it works for you that's great and good for you but please just accept we all have different experiences and locations.

I run double Swientys and have never broken a roof yet. What on earth happened to achieve that??

PH

I can not understand how the colonies failed PH .. whatever i have put into a Abelo hive has thrived apart from a late bought in Queen this year but they have picked up now for winter.. i had three colonies survive the beast from the east last winter on the Alnwick coast.. and i have seven going into winter this year all doing well so far..

 

[domino]

National frame number (11 or 12) or National footprint? Might limit your choices.

Footprint would be more important to me. I just want to make sure that whatever format I buy supports double national brood and not end up with boxes you can't stack on top of each other with the correct bee space.