Poly roofs

[Millet]

Brilliant.. if you have corner beads to spare..

I find off cuts in skips fairly often..

 

[Poly Hive]

If we're having a moan the Paynes BB is just so badly designed its not funny. Why design in mouse issues? Insane.

PH

 

[Beefriendly]

the Paynes BB is just so badly designed its not funny. Why design in mouse issues? Insane.

PH

Not sure I follow you here PH....
Never had any issues with mice with my Paynes BB's.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

So ... someone needs to make a poly roof with a metal cover?

 

[Hebeegeebee]

Not sure I follow you here PH....
Never had any issues with mice with my Paynes BB's.

Nor have I - but then I sold my Paynes poly.

 

[local_beekeeper]

Langstroth hive with roof reinforcements...looks good. I'm thinking of getting one.


https://www.abelo.co.uk/shop/new/langstroth-poly-hive-2-supers/

 

[Hedgerow Honey]

I should have only six/eight poly roofs left on hives, the spares are now used on outside stacked supers, I have gradually moved over to 4" timber as find them a lot more flexible in use and lot less likely to get knocked/blown off.
My system is now timber solid floor/swienty poly/timber c-board and roof, this is mostly to remove the need for ekes when feeding but the colony's seem to be doing well this way and none have eaten through the thin edge of the brood box.

 

[Millet]

So ... someone needs to make a poly roof with a metal cover?

I have been thinking about it..

 

[wightbees]

I have wondered why we don't use roofs like in the Canadian blog video? Not necessarily with feeder hole but made to fit directly on top of Brood box with a lip each end. Sure in the states its the same. I might give it a go this year!

I have black correx type sheets that I made about 30 roofs, still going strong!

 

[mbc]

I have wondered why we don't use roofs like in the Canadian blog video? Not necessarily with feeder hole but made to fit directly on top of Brood box with a lip each end. Sure in the states its the same. I might give it a go this year!

I have black correx type sheets that I made about 30 roofs, still going strong!

I'm sure the never-ending damp would make them warp here in wet Wales

 

[BMH]

I should have only six/eight poly roofs left on hives, the spares are now used on outside stacked supers, I have gradually moved over to 4" timber as find them a lot more flexible in use and lot less likely to get knocked/blown off.
My system is now timber solid floor/swienty poly/timber c-board and roof, this is mostly to remove the need for ekes when feeding but the colony's seem to be doing well this way and none have eaten through the thin edge of the brood box.

You wanna sell your second hand Swienty roofs?

 

[ericbeaumont]

I'm sure the never-ending damp would make them warp here in wet Wales

That same thought came to me this afternoon while watching another Steppler Farms video (deviation from tax return, don't know how). Ian Steppler talked about the very dry (though of course, snowy) Canadian winters; throw in long summers (there's a five minute video called Silence that shows four blokes working hives in 38C) and the result is that wood lasts. Here we can have four seasons in a week or three months of Welsh rain, even in London.

 

[Bates]

So ... someone needs to make a poly roof with a metal cover?

They do, it's patented and made by park beekeeping. They had them at national honey show - https://www.parkbeekeeping.com/product/poly-insulated-roof-4/.
It was something I was working on before we realised they were in existence and patented.

 

[mpenn]

They do, it's patented and made by park beekeeping. They had them at national honey show - https://www.parkbeekeeping.com/product/poly-insulated-roof-4/.
It was something I was working on before we realised they were in existence and patented.

Dont see how you can have a patent on the roof ??

Also Sweinty have had a metal roof for a long time for there langstroth.

https://www.swienty.com/pi/Hive-Cover-Metal-Langstroth_4002007_164622.aspx

 

[Poly Hive]

The issue is with the Paynes BB's is that instead of keeping the slot which prevented mice they enlarged it to take that daft entrance block.

The shape of the front makes it impossible to fix a mouse guard. So they went from a design which excluded mice to one with encourages them.

As I said insane. I hate things which need "bits" as in the hurly burly of life they get broken or lost. I know they probably did this for patent reasons but its still a very poor thin product.

And no I don't have any. Thankfully.

PH

 

[Beefriendly]

Are you are referring to the cut out corners that enable them to locate within the Paynes floors? Great idea as they cannot slip when moving hives to the heather /borage/rape etc
Still can't see how any mice would get through them unless they chew their way in.
I like the Paynes plastic entrance blocks which, if set to the round hole setting, become mouse excluders. No need to add anything else.
As I say I've never had any problems with mice and Paynes hives .... as you say you don't own any I find it hard to see how you have encountered this problem.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Langstroth hive with roof reinforcements...looks good. I'm thinking of getting one.
https://www.abelo.co.uk/shop/new/langstroth-poly-hive-2-supers/

LBK: caution, risk of internet temptation.

You run wood Lang? If so, the boxes will have flat rims. The Lyson you're considering has lipped rims (check the pics) and you won't be able to mix'n'match wood and poly. Even if you already have Paradise Lang poly, the lips on those boxes are bound to be different to the Lyson lips. On the other hand, if you want poly Lang and to be able to mix and match, consider Honey Paw, which have no lipped rim. What simplicity! What joy! Hold on: do the box footprints match?

That's only half the problem, because Langstroth frame variability is even more complicated that National box sizing: Euro Lang frames are unlikely to fit US Lang spec boxes, and the confetti of different Euro Lang sizes (Dave Cushman's A-Z has a chart that shows 32) will worry you to sleep even if only half of them are still in production. What this means is that wherever you source a hive, you'll be locked into that system and frame size forever.

We have a few old Lyson Langs, and a few Paradise, picked up along the way and soon to be retired. Though both designs are perfectly good for bees, the frames that fit the Lyson won't fit the Paradise, and there is one essential beekeeping factor that will save time, energy, money and swearing: commonality of equipment.

 

[local_beekeeper]

Thanks for the info. I understand what you're saying about the different sized frames.

I spoke to Abelo this morning and took the plunge and ordered 5 hives with frames and foundations. The frames are the standard deep and shallow Langstroth available from UK suppliers.

 

[Into the lions den]

Lots of odd stuff in this thread......a real pot pourri of individualistic ideas.

1. If you want to be able to shop around NEVER buy lipped material...as highlighted each maker has their own variant, and that not an accident, they are locking you in. Plain flush edged boxes are best..but even then one or to makers lock you in by using their own variant of where the bee space lies.

2. Hard edges are NOT required. The add cost and have just about zero benefit, but its one of these things where people invent a difference, sell it as a benefit, and those who buy have invested in it and become followers.

3. Metal covers on poly roofs is of no worth at all. I am sure there will be some who say they are but if you keep the poly painted the metal is just another cost.

4. Be careful with frame sizes...as already stated there are variants. The UK ones are the least likely to be good in the event of using them as honey supers as the necks are fragile (main reason we have our own variants...but at least they fit).

5. All should read the comments of Poly Hive before making their first purchase. To many pieces of poly gear have features that look like they have been designed from a list of grumbles from amateur beekeepers at shows..........and I say amateur not out of offensiveness as some of the added features are nice *sounding* but in the professional world rule the item out. Old song of mines, but the gear should be a simple as possible. The bees don't mind, and the less there is to lose in the way of little pieces the more likely it is to have commercial acceptance...and that's where the big orders come from.....and whoever got them to include an entrance more than the 12mm deep that excludes mice on their floors makes people shake their head. The old style deep entrance is an unnecessary relic of old style working that seems to have been revived for some reason. Especially in ventilation is the worry...put a deep entrance on a mesh floor? Why?

Poly Hive has had poly gear for longer than most people even knew it existed and has seen all the pitfalls come, go, and once it was forgotten they were a pitfall, come back again. The huge range of incompatible and semi compatible variants being turned out now is just a recipe for chaos and its so unnecessary.

Buy SIMPLE gear, of compatible designs, devoid of gadgetry, and not much can go wrong.

Oh..and one final thing about mixing and matching. Its a bad idea to run wood overhead of poly. In the hive..and winter is when its crucial....70% of the insulation value of a poly hive comes from the roof and/or hivetop feeder. If you run the bees in an insulated brood box ALL the condensation will take place on the coldest surface...directly overhead of the cluster. Having a poly feeder over a wooden hive left on all winter is a better outcome than having a wooden overhead (assuming without 25mm plus of insulation in the roof of course) on a poly box. The temperature or rather heat loss rate of the hive is dictated by the least insulated part above cluster height. In poly hives that is normally at the handholds so condensation can run down the walls to the bottom....its best not to be overhead.

 

[BMH]

Lots of odd stuff in this thread......a real pot pourri of individualistic ideas.



1. If you want to be able to shop around NEVER buy lipped material...as highlighted each maker has their own variant, and that not an accident, they are locking you in. Plain flush edged boxes are best..but even then one or to makers lock you in by using their own variant of where the bee space lies.



2. Hard edges are NOT required. The add cost and have just about zero benefit, but its one of these things where people invent a difference, sell it as a benefit, and those who buy have invested in it and become followers.



3. Metal covers on poly roofs is of no worth at all. I am sure there will be some who say they are but if you keep the poly painted the metal is just another cost.



4. Be careful with frame sizes...as already stated there are variants. The UK ones are the least likely to be good in the event of using them as honey supers as the necks are fragile (main reason we have our own variants...but at least they fit).



5. All should read the comments of Poly Hive before making their first purchase. To many pieces of poly gear have features that look like they have been designed from a list of grumbles from amateur beekeepers at shows..........and I say amateur not out of offensiveness as some of the added features are nice *sounding* but in the professional world rule the item out. Old song of mines, but the gear should be a simple as possible. The bees don't mind, and the less there is to lose in the way of little pieces the more likely it is to have commercial acceptance...and that's where the big orders come from.....and whoever got them to include an entrance more than the 12mm deep that excludes mice on their floors makes people shake their head. The old style deep entrance is an unnecessary relic of old style working that seems to have been revived for some reason. Especially in ventilation is the worry...put a deep entrance on a mesh floor? Why?



Poly Hive has had poly gear for longer than most people even knew it existed and has seen all the pitfalls come, go, and once it was forgotten they were a pitfall, come back again. The huge range of incompatible and semi compatible variants being turned out now is just a recipe for chaos and its so unnecessary.



Buy SIMPLE gear, of compatible designs, devoid of gadgetry, and not much can go wrong.



Oh..and one final thing about mixing and matching. Its a bad idea to run wood overhead of poly. In the hive..and winter is when its crucial....70% of the insulation value of a poly hive comes from the roof and/or hivetop feeder. If you run the bees in an insulated brood box ALL the condensation will take place on the coldest surface...directly overhead of the cluster. Having a poly feeder over a wooden hive left on all winter is a better outcome than having a wooden overhead (assuming without 25mm plus of insulation in the roof of course) on a poly box. The temperature or rather heat loss rate of the hive is dictated by the least insulated part above cluster height. In poly hives that is normally at the handholds so condensation can run down the walls to the bottom....its best not to be overhead.

To put you on the spot...

If you were starting out again as a commercial beekeeper, and cost wasn't an issue, what would be your set up from floor, through to roof, feeders, queen excluders, beespace, single double brood, poly/wood, national/lang/dadent etc...

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