Poly Hives - Beebox vs Swienty

[PriceyBaby]

Hallo,
I'm in my first year of beekeeping and have poly Langstroths from Modern Beekeeping (Beeboxes). I've got three colonies going into the winter all in such hives - keeping my fingers crossed as to how many come out the other side.

I like the Beeboxes - sort of - but the lack of actual 'proper' top bee space annoys me; the perspex 'crown board' sags in the middle so that bees get stuck; I've bought thicker perspex cut to the right size but even that doesn't entirely resolve the problem. The same applies to the plastic queen excluders Modern Beekeeping sell. PLUS, because of the way Beeboxes are made, any 'custom built' additions or wooden parts from other manufacturers don't fit properly!

I understand Swienty Langstroth hives are compatible with 'normal' Langstroth hives and the parts, so wooden-framed metal queen excluders, etc, would fit properly. I'm tempted to buy one to try it out (accepting that my Beebox stuff won't be compatible), especially as the exchange rate is quite favourable at present and they seem to price in Euros! I'm not sure about delivery charges, of course!

Does anyone have experience of both Swienty and Beebox poly hives and, if so, what are your thoughts/preference? In addition, are there any Swienty poly Langstroth users out there with a view on those hives specifically?

Cheers, and sorry for the long post, but I always think a bit of background is useful!

 

[Millet]

Can you not put a small wood spacer on the middle of one of the top bars to stop the crown board or plastic Queen Excluder sagging in the middle.

 

[PriceyBaby]

Can you not put a small wood spacer on the middle of one of the top bars to stop the crown board or plastic Queen Excluder sagging in the middle.

Yes, I can (thanks for the response, Millet), but I'm also just wondering if Swienty might be a better option. But, thank you for the suggestion - I'm now feeling massively dim! :-( (I'm actually thinking that attaching something to the 'underside' of the perspex board/QE might work better, but you're idea is very sound.)
It'd the general lack of compatibility with any other Langstroth hive parts that's bothering me really; I'd like a bit more flexibility.

 

[Finman]

.
That is a problem in new poly boxes. Bee space is so low that bees will be crushed often when I put the inner cover on.

Two ways to handle that. Fix an extra 6 mm slat around the inner cover, or make extra 10 mm frame between box and cover. I have those frames because I have feeded pollen patty with them.

 

[Finman]

.
BeeBox material has a space under the frames and over the frames. That is why inner cover should have too a space made by edge lists.

 

[Millet]

Yes, I can (thanks for the response, Millet), but I'm also just wondering if Swienty might be a better option. But, thank you for the suggestion - I'm now feeling massively dim! :-( (I'm actually thinking that attaching something to the 'underside' of the perspex board/QE might work better, but you're idea is very sound.)
It'd the general lack of compatibility with any other Langstroth hive parts that's bothering me really; I'd like a bit more flexibility.

I'm new to this wonderful hobby also and i only have a standard national hive, i don't have any experience with other types but there's plenty of helpful folk on here who do, so sit back and wait to get inundated with information..

 

[B+.]

Does anyone have experience of both Swienty and Beebox poly hives and, if so, what are your thoughts/preference? In addition, are there any Swienty poly Langstroth users out there with a view on those hives specifically?

Just use a sheet of clear plastic from a builders merchant.They'll stick it down around the edges but don't worry. They over-winter just fine.
I have both swienty and Paradise Honey boxes - they both work although the paradise honey boxes are designed to lock together. It makes no difference

 

[PriceyBaby]

Just use a sheet of clear plastic from a builders merchant.

I didn't think to get it from a builder's merchants, B+, but that's what I've done. It still squeezes the bees! (Though the suggestion of a central support made by Millet is noted.)

The issue is, really, the lack of compatibility between Beebox and ANYTHING from any other manufacturer. And, anything to try and make yourself does not fit between boxes or between box and roof because of the way the boxes/roof interlock.

Do you use Swienty poly hives? If so, do you like them?

 

[Swarm]

BJB uses swienty langs, they are compatible with wooden components and have none of the MB problems you've discovered.

Edit: I have swienty nationals, the best poly nat option IMO.

 

[B+.]

Do you use Swienty poly hives? If so, do you like them?

Yes and Yes.
Take a look (http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=34671). The plastic I use comes on a long roll and I just cut it a little over-size. The bees do fine with both hives together. Don't worry about the inter-locking. They work fine

 

[JohnF]

Hi
I use both and also cedar (T seconds) hives.
A lot of my Perspex covers I cut myself are thicker and don't find them a problem.

Never got wooden framed Q/E for the Swienty hives but use their unframed wire ones that sit inside on the frame top bars, they also fit all the other hives I have. The wooden framed ones I have do not fit the Swienty as the overall dimensions are smaller.

MB hives are easy to use with the OA vaporiser as it goes through the entrance, Swienty I do from under the open mesh floor.
I don't use any mouse guards on the Swienty hives.
MB hives have large reassesses for handles which reduces the wall thickness at that point.

Don't have any preferences for either make really but the Swienty are a little bit more robust

 

[Bee Bumble]

Do you use Swienty poly hives? If so, do you like them?[/QUOTE]

We use Swienty JLS and like them best, bought direct and from Paynes.
We also use Paradise Honey JLS nucs (Beebox) because they are very versatile (can be used with supers, Ashforth feeder, or can be used as two 3 frame nucs etc), but not the full-sized PH hives.

The Swienty poly hive walls are thicker than wood but otherwise are compatible e.g. we use some wood framed wire QX but also had some made with a thicker frame so they are the same 'footprint' as the poly hive. We also use plastic QX without problems.

 

[PriceyBaby]

OK, thanks all for your recent responses. Looks like 'thumbs up' for Sweinty, so far, anyway!

 

[fatshark]

Beebox/MB make good bait hives ... at least, that's all mine are used for now as the problems outweighed the benefits. Swienty/Denrosa all the way. I have a stack of their supers and use them interchangeably with cedar. Very robust and if you do smash one (and I have) they're easy to mend.

All mine are Nationals, but if I were starting again I'd happily go Swienty poly Langstroths.

 

[pargyle]

I have Paynes Polys .. which I recognise do not have a lot of common with Swietny and MB but .. they have the same problem of the thin plastic crown boards. I don't use them - I make my own out of 6mm poycarbonate and I put a 6mm rim of the same material around the edge .. glued on with CA Glue (Superglue). Gives me top bee space and they don't sag even when they have a hole cut in the middle and a full rapid feeder sat on top.

I use the thin sheets for separating supers when they go into storage so not wasted atlhough they are pretty near useless for what they were intended.

 

[Tremyfro]

Even though I have MB national and one MB Langstroth...both have clear crown boards which sag onto the tops of the frames....but my bees have resolved this problem for themselves..they build a little comb on top of the frames in just the right places to hold up the plastic sheet. We don't remove this when we do inspections....only when a super is put on top. Interestingly, they don't build the comb between the boxes. So they make their own bee space...clever bees!

 

[BeeJayBee]

Does anyone have experience of both Swienty and Beebox poly hives and, if so, what are your thoughts/preference? In addition, are there any Swienty poly Langstroth users out there with a view on those hives specifically?

BJB uses swienty langs, they are compatible with wooden components and have none of the MB problems you've discovered.

I do indeed use Swienty Langs, but I have several Beebox nucs and also one hand-me-down Beebox hive.

You can buy the Swienty poly Langstroth hives from Paynes Southdown Bee Farm (not Jumbos); the Beebox from Modern Beekeeping - so there's no need to worry about Euro exchange rates.

Frames are fully cross-compatible because all my hives are Jumbo Langstroth, the supers of both makes take Dadant shallows.

The Swienty boxes won't easily stack on the full sized Beebox hives, and vice versa - it looks awkward too.

With the Swienty hives I use 6mm thick polycarbonate crown boards because I thought it was a good idea at the time, but with the Beebox I use thick polythene from the garden centre (same as B+) - cut slightly too large so it's trapped in the overlap between the box and super or roof when I close up, it makes life slightly easier. The bees glue it in place in no time and don't seem to care if it sags onto the top bars. The 'crown board' is only there to stop them gluing the roof down.

If I use two Beebox boxes for an expanding nuc (one above the other) I don't use a queen excluder, but do use one with a feeder - a plastic qe cut to fit inside the box, placed directly onto the top bars because otherwise the boxes don't seem to stack well. There's no problem with that, it's the way a National + plastic qe works.

Standard Langstroth framed wire queen excluders are slightly too small for the Swienty boxes because the poly walls are thicker than those of wooden hives, but it doesn't matter too much. It's also easy enough to buy unframed wire ones (much cheaper) and make a wooden frame. (Same as Bee Bumble said) It is possible to use wooden supers, but the footprint is smaller so there's a ledge all round the outside and it doesn't look so good.

I find the Swienty boxes marginally quicker to work than the Beebox - because of the lip - but the Beebox is more reliably locked together for transporting - because of the lip. Both floors are designed for 'migratory beekeeping', with arches to keep straps in place. (Beebox nucs are good for collecting swarms, so are Paynes poly national nucs.)

DerekM will tell you the Beebox is less-well insulated than Swienty. If you're bothered about heat loss from the top of the Beebox (you're in Kendal, which is colder than where we are) you can add a bit of Kingspan or similar to the outside - cut to fit, and slotted into the shallower part of the roof.

The Beebox nuc is designed to be able to take two 3 frame nucleus colonies - I haven't had the need to do this, so can't say how well it works.

Do I actually prefer one over the other? Yes, and for two fairly trivial reasons - it's easier to paint the Swienty than the Beebox, and the Swienty looks less unusual.

If you're worried about the longevity and robustness of poly hives then check out ITLD's album. He's a bee farmer who uses a lot of poly langstroths. http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?u=4812

 

[Bee Bumble]

You can buy the Swienty poly Langstroth hives from Paynes Southdown Bee Farm (not Jumbos) QUOTE

Paynes do sell Swienty poly Langstroth jumbo brood boxes and metal roofs although they are not listed on their website. Roger will get anything from the Swienty catalogue upon request.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Beebox/MB make good bait hives
That's what I use my one remaining one for.

The rest are Swienty or cedar, all with 6mm polycarbonate crowns and framed excluders

Hello PriceyBaby, I used to live just outside Kendal. Are you a member of Kendal Bee Club?

 

[PriceyBaby]

Beebox/MB make good bait hives
That's what I use my one remaining one for.

The rest are Swienty or cedar, all with 6mm polycarbonate crowns and framed excluders

Hello PriceyBaby, I used to live just outside Kendal. Are you a member of Kendal Bee Club?

Eric...
Yes, I am. It's not the most 'active' of associations - not when it comes to supporting newbees, anyway! So, I'm picking most of this stuff up on my own. Could do with some better weather as well!