Poly hive help

[jonnybeegood]

I have poly hives from beehive supplies, I use the jumbo 14 x 12, does anyone else use these? I found when I came to fit a mouse guard it wasn't wide enough, I know you are supposed to slide it under the BB so it lies flat but I didn't like that idea, so I used 2 on the front & pinned them so the holes lined up together. does anyone have any other ideas of how to do it? It was a bit of a faff to sort out. also when I had wasps trying to get in I found the reducer which slides into the entrance left too big a gap so I had to make something out of wood.

 

[itma]

Putting a mouseguard horizontally at the top of the entrance ramp is the method advised by BHS.
It is awkward to do, requiring lifting the brood box.
And it is a bit late to be thinking of adding mouseguards - especially in this way, as it is going to disturb bees that are likely to be clustered, and which would die if shaken off the cluster.

Suggest getting a couple of fellow beeks round to lend a hand. One lifting each side of the 14x12, then the third person separates the floor, pops in the mouseguard, aligns it and in a few seconds the two lifters can (gently) lower the box back onto the floor with careful alignment. Many hands make light work!

 

[fatshark]

Or stuff most of the entrance width with a rolled up bit of bubble wrap perhaps?

 

[jonnybeegood]

Yes thanks, as i say in my OP i know thats how they are fitted but i preffered to put them on the front which i did 2 month ago, i was hoping someone else had found the same thing & did it a different way to the way i had to do it.

 

[itma]

Yes thanks, as i say in my OP i know thats how they are fitted but i preffered to put them on the front which i did 2 month ago, i was hoping someone else had found the same thing & did it a different way to the way i had to do it.

That's the way the manufacturer recommends because putting them on the front doesn't work too well (as I think you have discovered).

You will find that there are some on the forum who believe that 'under and up' entrances don't need mouseguards. My (singular0 BHS floor (with Paynes box on top) isn't guarded this year. Just the poly BHS entrance reducer (and as much prop as the girls have added).
Not in any position to advocate this, just something I'm doing, because the horizontal fitting really requires help.
Love the BHS roof, not very keen on the floor. Both too expensive for my liking.

 

[jonnybeegood]

They do need a mouse guard, i fitted the insert which reduces the entrance to find the entrance became blocked with dead bees as it was too narrow, that was when i first started with them. I made the mistake of trimming it to make it wider but i think mice could get under. & push this out as its not tight, so better safe than sorry i fitted M guards.

 

[MuswellMetro]

we have two 1414 polys and we rely on the bees being more active in a poly and stopping the mice entering,

well that's the theory but no problems in the last two years, except the bees themselves proplised the entrance down quite small with a curtain of propois

 

[itma]

... i fitted the insert which reduces the entrance to find the entrance became blocked with dead bees as it was too narrow, that was when i first started with them. …

This does not seem to be a general problem of the design. I would have to wonder whether the slide had been forced in too far.

 

[pargyle]

we have two 1414 polys and we rely on the bees being more active in a poly and stopping the mice entering,

well that's the theory but no problems in the last two years, except the bees themselves proplised the entrance down quite small with a curtain of propois

Yes ... I haven't got mouse guards on my Polys as the bees are still really active and no sign of clustering at all ... I've got Paynes ones and I was considering modifying the plastic entrance restrictor by drilling some vertical holes in it and inserting a few panel pins to create a sort of in situ mouse guard. The standard block has a couple of bee size holes but I really don't like putting it in that way as it doesn't allow the bees to shovel the dead ones out very easily ... and mine do seem to be very good housekeepers - I regularly see the undertakers at work on the landing board.

The other thing I've done is make stands that have a big overhang for the landing board - I know mice are acrobats but it's not going to be that easy for them with this arrangement.

 

[Davelin]

I don't think that will present much of a challenge for a mouse.

Also wonder how stable it will be with a hive with 4 or 5 supers on in summer?

 

[jonnybeegood]

No itma, it only goes in untill it stops, it cant be wedged in as it just goes up to a dead stop, i shaved a couple of mm off to allow the bees room to remove dead bees but then it allowed too long a gap for them to protect from bees/wasps robbing. Eventually i done away with them & made a better one out of wood so i can reduce the entrance down to 1/2 " wide but still high enough to enable dead bees to be carried out.

 

[pargyle]

Also wonder how stable it will be with a hive with 4 or 5 supers on in summer?

Because the legs are splayed beyond the floor area of the hive it's rock solid so I have no fears on that account ... the Paynes poly hive has locating slots on the bottom of the floor and these locate on two lugs that I have made on top of the stand so that it can't move laterally.

As for a mouse ... I know how acrobatic they are but they really struggle with smooth vertical surfaces and they can only hang upside down on overhangs when there is something they can grip ...

 

[Swarm]

As for a mouse ... I know how acrobatic they are but they really struggle with smooth vertical surfaces and they can only hang upside down on overhangs when there is something they can grip ...

Except for Danger Mouse, he's a different ball game ...

 

[Madge]

... so I used 2 on the front & pinned them so the holes lined up together ...

... i shaved a couple of mm off to allow the bees room to remove dead bees ... Eventually i done away with them & made a better one out of wood so i can reduce the entrance down to 1/2 " wide but still high enough to enable dead bees to be carried out.

Your solution for a mouseguard seems ok to me - but I've never bothered with mouseguards with my beehive supply hives. I keep my varroa trays (with some ventilation holes drilled in them) in over winter and I've seen evidence that mice have made use of that space - but they did not get into the hive. Can't you just make another wooden entrance reducer with a 6mm opening, and then remove it every now and again over winter to scrape out dead bees? (But again - I've never had a dead-bee problem either.)
Kitta

 

[jonnybeegood]

Your solution for a mouseguard seems ok to me - but I've never bothered with mouseguards with my beehive supply hives. I keep my varroa trays (with some ventilation holes drilled in them) in over winter and I've seen evidence that mice have made use of that space - but they did not get into the hive. Can't you just make another wooden entrance reducer with a 6mm opening, and then remove it every now and again over winter to scrape out dead bees? (But again - I've never had a dead-bee problem either.)
Kitta

The only problem I had with dead bees was when I first introduced a package of bees into the hive, I think there were quite a few dead ones when I shook them in, & as I closed the hive up for 3 days, it seems when I opened up the hive entrance by turning around the slide insert I think there were a lot of dead ones piled up which blocked it, I wondered why none came out flying so I raked them out & all was fine. That's a good idea with the varroah tray, I had it in for 3 days to do a V count & there was a lot of condensation on it from above, now when I use it I just sit it on bricks under the hive. How have you found these hives Mell? have you had them long?

 

[Madge]

... How have you found these hives Mell? have you had them long?

I bought my first Bee Hive Supplies hives in October 2012 - so they're entering their third winter.

They're strong and sturdy with lots of roof insulation and the bees are happy in them; it's easy to handle the frames as the lug rests are generous and the frames do not get propolised to the box above.

The negatives are:

both the varroa tray and the entrance reducer tend to blow away in strong wind unless they're secured - so I wedge the trays in place and use a drawing pin (push pin?) to keep the entrance reducer in place; and

closing the hives securely for moving is also difficult. I sometimes can't get the entrance reducer (obviously in closing position) in place fast enough before bees start to pour out - and if I've managed to do that in time, then I don't trust it to be secure (I'm speaking from experience) - so now I tape up the entrances with duck tape when moving the hives.

Lastly, I find 500x500 hives too big. That's obviously a personal preference and not a design mistake - but I do think they're far better than Paynes hives (the other 500x500 poly hive I know about). I prefer smaller hives like Swienty, except that instead of improving their original design, they've now messed it up - so I don't have a favourite polystyrene hive. They all have flaws (and my poly hives include these Bee Hive Supplies hives, Paynes hives, MB hives and Swienty - old and new designs). If I have to buy another poly hive, I'll probably have to choose between these and Swienty.
Kitta

 

[jonnybeegood]

I have 4 Bhs hives, i know what you mean, they are too big to move anywhere but i dont plan on moving mine so i will buy something else next year if i decide to move one somewhere else. I changed the CB's on mine for perspex which is miles better, so i can just take the roof off & look in without disturbing them. Yes the entrance is a pain, i find upholstrty pins better than drawing pins as they are longer & the heads are bigger/easier to get hold of. The brood is from front to back on mine so the bees must be happy & warm. One fault is that although they are bottom bee space there is 4/5 mm gap above the frame to the top of each BB / supers. I am pleased i started with these hives though.

 

[Madge]

... i know what you mean, they are too big to move anywhere but i dont plan on moving mine so i will buy something else next year if i decide to move one somewhere else. ...

No, I move them as easily as any of my other hives (I take the roof off when moving them and close the hive with a crown board or migrating board) - it's just that closing the entrances securely is more difficult. I don't trust the inserts on their own to do the trick. The size issue for me has more to do with normal hive management - I prefer smaller.

... One fault is that although they are bottom bee space there is 4/5 mm gap above the frame to the top of each BB / supers.

I don't think that space is a fault. I think it helps to prevent the frames sticking to the box above. Swienty's new design has lost that space which is why the frames in the new Swienties stick to the box above it (despite using vaseline on the lugs and tops of the boxes).

But I agree with you - they're good hives and the bees are happy.
Kitta

 

[Swarm]

Swienty's new design has lost that space which is why the frames in the new Swienties stick to the box above it (despite using vaseline on the lugs and tops of the boxes).

Can you explain what you mean? I'm assuming you are using the rails provided in order to run them as BBS?
The side wall of any box placed on top will sit directly on top of the frame lugs because there is no bee space recess cut into the bottom of the boxes. I could only imagine loads of dead bees and other problems so I left the rails out and run mine TBS, which is better altogether.

I think jonnybeegood is talking about the top bars sitting a little lower than flush with the top of the box, this is the same with paynes hives.

I agree with your thoughts on 500mm profile, it makes a big difference when moving hives. I also much prefer the proper fit that you get with swienty when adding any parts like excluders to the hive.

 

[Madge]

Can you explain what you mean? I'm assuming you are using the rails provided in order to run them as BBS? ...

I think jonnybeegood is talking about the top bars sitting a little lower than flush with the top of the box, this is the same with paynes hives. ...

Yes, I use the rails provided in the new Swienties; and yes, I understood what JBG meant. That's also what I meant.

In the old Swienties which did not include rails and where the frame lugs rested on the polystyrene lug rests, the tops of the frames were slightly below the top of the boxes (as in BHS hives or Paynes hives). This helped to prevent the frame lugs being propolised to the box above.

In the new Swienties they have lowered the polystyrene lug rest to accommodate the plastic rails, but they did not lower it far enough to leave that small space above the frame top bars - so now the tops of the frames are level with the top of the box walls (as you've noticed).

I suppose I can follow your example and remove the rails - but that solution has its drawbacks as well as the bees can get squashed under the lugs despite one's best efforts to avoid it. We're left to choose between two bad options.

Kitta