Poly hive help

[jonnybeegood]

Yes

 

[Madge]

If the frames are the correct dimensions, and you have 10mm space under the frames, and 5mm above the frames, then the boxes are too deep, that is how i understand what you are saying, yes.

I've just gone and measured an empty BHS deep box. I underestimated the size of a gnat's cockerel - sorry Itma! It's about 3mm on the BHS hive and 2mm on a traditional wooden hive. Underneath the brood frames is a 7mm gap with BHS and a 6mm gap with the wooden one. I don't have free shallows to see if the spaces below the frames are the same as for the deeps.

Compared to the plans for a National on the SBA website, it seems to me that BHS brood boxes are made to the same proportions as the wooden ones - but lacking the lug recesses and the walls are obviously thicker.

Even if the space between the bottom of the shallow frames and the top of the deep frames in Jonny's hive is too big (and I doubt it) - then I still can't see how shaving the tops of the shallows (or the deeps) is helping.

 

[jonnybeegood]

I dont know how i can put it any simpler? Because there is a gap above the frames i.e. A step to the top edge of the BB, & same with the supers by the way,i basically machined that step off so the sides of the box are now virtually flush with the top of the frames. Imagine stepping off a step onto a wooden board, then grinding away that step, you then wouldnt have that step, it would all be level?

 

[Madge]

I dont know how i can put it any simpler? Because there is a gap above the frames i.e. A step to the top edge of the BB, & same with the supers by the way,i basically machined that step off so the sides of the box are now virtually flush with the top of the frames. Imagine stepping off a step onto a wooden board, then grinding away that step, you then wouldnt have that step, it would all be level?

Oh, I see - you've machined off the tops of the boxes - not the frames. You've machined away the gnat's cockerel! Well, I think that was a mistake. Re-read what we've all said so far.

The BHS boxes are fine as they are, Jonny. Leave well alone.
Kitta

 

[Swarm]

It doesn't sound very good to me. Your boxes feature a gnat's cockerel, same as my paynes but JBG seems to have a much bigger cockerel and is getting ladder comb problems. I can understand the workaround but there's no way I'd start shaving poly boxes, I would have returned them TBH.
I've heard other complaints that required some filing, which doesn't fill me with confidence regarding the expensive BHS nat.
As for the new swienty without an excluder, easy answer is wooden super. I run mine this way though mine are TBS.

 

[jonnybeegood]

To be hones i only did it with one BB to see how it worked out, i will compare the difference to the others come spring. As ive said not a gnats cockerel, its half as big as the bottom bee space in the box above so it is increasing the bee space by a third. Mell how thick are the top bars of your frames? I'm wondering if these were badly made frames & not as thick as the wood should be.

 

[jonnybeegood]

View attachment 11172 maybe you can understand from these pics?

 

[jonnybeegood]

View attachment 11173

 

[jonnybeegood]

View attachment 11174 this is the one i machined down a little.

 

[Madge]

View attachment 11174 this is the one i machined down a little.

Thanks for the photos. I'll compare them tomorrow with mine.
Kitta

 

[Swarm]

As per Hivemaker's earlier reply, have a check of your top bars, that is quite a gap and I'm inclined to think it may be the frames at fault.

 

[jonnybeegood]

As per Hivemaker's earlier reply, have a check of your top bars, that is quite a gap and I'm inclined to think it may be the frames at fault.

To be honest i only did it with one BB to see how it worked out, i will compare the difference to the others come spring. As ive said not a gnats cockerel, its half as big as the bottom bee space in the box above so it is increasing the bee space by a third. Mell how thick are the top bars of your frames? I'm wondering if these were badly made frames & not as thick as the wood should be.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yeah i mentioned that earlier, but i have measured the frame top bar with newer ones & they are the same.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Yeah i mentioned that earlier, but i have measured the frame top bar with newer ones & they are the same.

9.1 mm thick at the ends.
Shallow frame side bar 140mm
Standard deep side bar 215mm



Super depth 150mm... 5 7/8"
Standard deep 225mm... 8 7/8"

 

[jonnybeegood]

I'll measure the same items tomorrow.

 

[drex]

Jbg. I do not know these hives. Is it not possible to raise the frame runners up a mm or two?. You seem to nail your side bars vertically down through the top bar. Better to nail horizontally through from the side. That way they better resist the downward pull from gravity, when the frame is full. You risk your frames falling apart

 

[Hivemaker.]

Jbg. Is it not possible to raise the frame runners up a mm or two?.

Drex, in this instance, what would doing that achieve?

 

[jonnybeegood]

Jbg. I do not know these hives. Is it not possible to raise the frame runners up a mm or two?. You seem to nail your side bars vertically down through the top bar. Better to nail horizontally through from the side. That way they better resist the downward pull from gravity, when the frame is full. You risk your frames falling apart

Yes youre right about the nails well spotted! I made 30 frames like this when I first started, then realised, & did it correctly , they now have nails in from the side & the top so are even stronger stupid mistake Lol but I didn't see the point in trying to take out the nails & maybe ruin the frames so I left them in.
As for the runners they cant be raised as the plastic runner, being L shaped fits in a ready made slot to give the "correct" height. if I raised them somehow it would just make the bottom bee space bigger so I wouldn't be any better off.

 

[Madge]

Jonny, my BHS hive is pretty much just like yours - and that's to be expected because, I think, they're all made using the same mould. The box is made according to standard National measurements.

As I've said in Post 18 - I think that space is essential to avoid the top-bar lugs being propolised to the walls of the box above them. I've not had any problems with brace comb with any of my five BHS hives in the two years of using them. Some building of wax above the bars is inevitable with all hives. Just scrape it off.

I've taken some photos of the spacing above the frames in some of my hives. You can see them here.

https://flic.kr/s/aHsk69suJ4

It would be interesting to see how managing the hive you've altered compares with the others - but I think you might have some of the problems associated with the new Swienties with rails in place.

So far, I've been the only BHS owner to reply to your worry about the spacing above the top bars. It would be interesting to hear if anybody else shares that concern. As for me, I think leave well alone!

Kitta

 

[jonnybeegood]

Jonny, my BHS hive is pretty much just like yours - and that's to be expected because, I think, they're all made using the same mould. The box is made according to standard National measurements.

As I've said in Post 18 - I think that space is essential to avoid the top-bar lugs being propolised to the walls of the box above them. I've not had any problems with brace comb with any of my five BHS hives in the two years of using them. Some building of wax above the bars is inevitable with all hives. Just scrape it off.

I've taken some photos of the spacing above the frames in some of my hives. You can see them here.

https://flic.kr/s/aHsk69suJ4

It would be interesting to see how managing the hive you've altered compares with the others - but I think it might have some of the problems associated with the new Swienties with rails in place.

So far, I've been the only BHS owner to reply to your worry about the spacing above the top bars. It would be interesting to hear if anybody else shares that concern. As for me, I think leave well alone!

Kitta

Ok thanks, the gap on yours doesnt look quite as big with yours the £1looks level or above the edge, with mine it was about 2mm below. I know they are all probably from the same mould which is why its a bit odd. I will plod away with them as they are. I am still learning & want to get things right from the start so i wanted to check, maybe not many use them as only you replied which i find odd if thats the case as they are great hives for the bees. One thing i found is its much easier to paint them before gluing together keeping paint off the glued edges. Thanks for your help Kitta. You can see mine in my video on the new members thread about my swarm.

 

[Swarm]

Icanhopit (in whatever guise) uses them as I recall and at least one other forum member that I can think of.
However, one look at the price list for the various options suggests the majority of poly users have opted for a cheaper option. Considering this problem and at least one other that I've been told, I wonder how the inflated prices can be justified, even the 100mm of insulation that the roof is supposed to provide, only applies to the centre of the apex roof.