Please can I have some advice to fix this mess?

[BeeSpace]

Right, I've been checking through the hives today, to put clearer boards on with a view to taking the honey off tomorrow and starting treatment with Api Life Var. Last checks were about 3 weeks ago. It turns out that I'm the grim reaper when it comes to bees. I'm feeling awful about the mess I've made of this and would appreciate some advice on how best to fix it before winter. Please be a bit gentle as I know I've screwed up and will learn from it, but just want to put it right ASAP as I'm feeling pretty demoralised (which is probably nothing compared to how the bees are feeling!).

So, the state of play....

Hive 0 - my first hive, caught as a small swarm (not by me) and obtained 30 June. Moved to a full hive too soon (by me), which I think has held them back. One to learn from. Currently 4 solid frames of bees, covering 3 good frames of BIAS. One frame with some pollen stores, one frame with some honey stores. Two frames are unbuilt foundation, 4 frames are partly built comb. They have a super of honey from another hive, which I will be removing tomorrow. They will be treated and fed 2:1. Do I need to do anything else with this hive? Perhaps dummy down?

Hive 1 - bought in as a full colony mid July, with three supers of honey. Absolutely packed with bees when I obtained it. Brood on very old comb. Put on a second brood of foundation to get them to build it, so I could swap out some of the very old comb (there was a lot of cross comb and resultant damage when I went through the box initially). Early august, they had started building this second brood out well, still boiling with bees, so I split off two, 3 frame nucs (late for it, I know) using some of the old comb and foundation, gave the main brood some of the new foundation / comb that they'd starting work on and split the supers across hives to make it more manageable for me, height-wise. Today - one frame of bees, original queen seen, no uncapped brood or eggs, very small amount of capped brood. Bees seemed lethargic. No sign of dysentry or other visible disease. Two frames of honey (plus one super full), no pollen stores. Rest of frames either comb, partly built comb or foundation. As with Hive 0, plan is to remove honey tomorrow and feed and treat but after what I've seen today, I don't know. I did note three weeks ago that I had concern about the queen's performance and brood pattern. Clearly, I've left it too long before taking action. What should I do with this hive? Pinch the queen and combine? Pinch and get in a mated queen? Dummy it down and pray? I feel I've destroyed this hive somehow and am devestated.

Nucs x 2 - splits from Hive 1 as mentioned. I think I made them too weak to start with. Another thing to learn from. They've had two attempts to make queens (last test frames introduced 11 August) but no signs of queens or brood. Plenty of honey in both. One has a couple of frames of bees, the other less. Some wasp bother, but at least one of them actually had guard bees on duty today. Combine? Buy in queens? Give up and keep goldfish instead?

So, that's what I have to work with. Aside from the fact I've clearly screwed up and probably caused the demise of a previously strong colony thanks to my dabbling, is there anyway I can rescue this and go into Winter with two colonies?

 

[enrico]

Nothing to panic about. we are all learning, even after forty years!
I would consider combining your best split with Hive 1 and your worst split with Hive 0.
First I would be SURE both nucs are queenless.
At least you will end up with a queen in each colony. I would make sure they all have food and as little space as they need to survive, poly nucs or dumbing down if necessary and then wait and see what happens.
I think you were probably a bit eager. Don't knock yourself too badly as we do all make mistakes, some worse than others and this one isn't horrendous!
see what others say before you make a final decision. the above is only how I would deal with it
E

 

[Beefriendly]

...
Got as far as first hive details . Either put in a nuc or amalgamate or dummy down with insulation.

 

[BeeSpace]

Nothing to panic about. we are all learning, even after forty years!
I would consider combining your best split with Hive 1 and your worst split with Hive 0.
First I would be SURE both nucs are queenless.
At least you will end up with a queen in each colony. I would make sure they all have food and as little space as they need to survive, poly nucs or dumbing down if necessary and then wait and see what happens.
I think you were probably a bit eager. Don't knock yourself too badly as we do all make mistakes, some worse than others and this one isn't horrendous!
see what others say before you make a final decision. the above is only how I would deal with it
E

Thanks Enrico.

Glad this doesn't rate as horrendous; I was expecting to get pasted for being the author of my own misfortune, so thanks for being nice!

I was wondering about combining both nucs back into Hive 1, since that's where they came from and if there is any disease issue I haven't spotted, at least I don't spread it to Hive 0.

Whichever way I combine - with regards to the queen in Hive 1; would I be best to make her an appointment with the welly of doom and replace her? I'm not sure if she's gone off lay because she's a duff or because there aren't enough bees to keep things rolling.

Also, when combining (whether it be with existing queen or purchased monarch), should I hold off treating until everything's settled (but still feed)?

Having said all that, if I go down the 'new queen' route, the thought of having to ensure two nucs are definitely Q-, combine both of them with the remains of Hive 1, find and squish original queen and then introduce purchased queen, makes me break out in a cold sweat

 

[BeeSpace]

...
Got as far as first hive details . Either put in a nuc or amalgamate or dummy down with insulation.

Thanks for the input.

Sorry original post was so long - didn't want to not give enough info for opinions, but appreciate it was probably overkill.

 

[yeogi75]

never too much information, its when we don't get the full picture that we cannot give a good response to, good luck, think about clearing old wax out next year.

 

[enrico]

Thanks Enrico.

Glad this doesn't rate as horrendous; I was expecting to get pasted for being the author of my own misfortune, so thanks for being nice!

I was wondering about combining both nucs back into Hive 1, since that's where they came from and if there is any disease issue I haven't spotted, at least I don't spread it to Hive 0.

Whichever way I combine - with regards to the queen in Hive 1; would I be best to make her an appointment with the welly of doom and replace her? I'm not sure if she's gone off lay because she's a duff or because there aren't enough bees to keep things rolling.

Also, when combining (whether it be with existing queen or purchased monarch), should I hold off treating until everything's settled (but still feed)?

Having said all that, if I go down the 'new queen' route, the thought of having to ensure two nucs are definitely Q-, combine both of them with the remains of Hive 1, find and squish original queen and then introduce purchased queen, makes me break out in a cold sweat

You could put them back as they were but it sounds as though both queens are weak and need a bit of a boost of numbers. You could also just end up with one hive and get rid of the duff queen! Difficult to say without actually seeing the hives.
I personally would give the queen a chance. If they don't like her they will supercede her, the problem is lack of drones. If you want to buy a queen in that will work too but they do take a while to get going so.....difficult call again.
I would hold off treating if you introduce a new queen. Do you need to treat? Do a varroa count, not set in stone but if a low drop it might be more beneficial to leave them for the moment.
Don't try and do everything at once, be calm, work out your strategy, do only what you need to gently but firmly and then close up. If you have a mentor now is the time for a bit of TLC from them to you........ Feel free to pm me if you want. Whatever let us know how it goes
E

 

[Bakerbee]

As a newbee i cant add to these knowledgable folks but thought id point out i went to double brood this summer too quick and my queen performed poorly with similar situations as your hives 0 snd 1. I went back to single bb and she is now going like the clappers. Bias stores the works. Managing their space is part of the art . Good luck.

 

[BeeSpace]

Thanks again folks.

Right. I have a plan.

The weakest nuc is being combined with Hive 1. Put them over newspaper this morning. Hive 1 seemed to have a lot more bees this morning, now the super is cleared, which is great. Will check next week and see what the queen is up to. If she's not laying, I'll look at purchasing a queen.

Stronger nuc is being given until next weekend to magic a queen out of the hat. No sign again today, but I like them and kind of feel they deserve longer. Failure to produce evidence of monarch will result in another newspaper combine next weekend.

Will let you know how it ends up. 'Cause I know you're all on the edge of your seat about it

 

[enrico]

Thanks again folks.

Right. I have a plan.

The weakest nuc is being combined with Hive 1. Put them over newspaper this morning. Hive 1 seemed to have a lot more bees this morning, now the super is cleared, which is great. Will check next week and see what the queen is up to. If she's not laying, I'll look at purchasing a queen.

Stronger nuc is being given until next weekend to magic a queen out of the hat. No sign again today, but I like them and kind of feel they deserve longer. Failure to produce evidence of monarch will result in another newspaper combine next weekend.

Will let you know how it ends up. 'Cause I know you're all on the edge of your seat about it

Can't wait!!!!
Honestly though, it's good to know how things end!
E

 

[BeeSpace]

A quick update for anyone interested...

Hive 1 and the weak nuc were combined successfully. Check today showed eggs, not many, but they were there, so the queen has graciously decided to lay again.

Stronger nuc was checked during the week and no sign of queen or eggs so I purchased a queen and went down today to install her. Of course, the stronger nuc has, indeed, now pulled a queen out of the hat and a lovely, fat, dark queen is busy laying lovely eggs. I marked her, admired her and then sat looking at the caged queen in my hand.

I know have a somewhat skimpy nuc made up with the purchased queen in it. Will ponder next step over the next week or so and see if she settles in.

Give me strength, this hobby is testing

 

[beeno]

A quick update for anyone interested...

Hive 1 and the weak nuc were combined successfully. Check today showed eggs, not many, but they were there, so the queen has graciously decided to lay again.

Stronger nuc was checked during the week and no sign of queen or eggs so I purchased a queen and went down today to install her. Of course, the stronger nuc has, indeed, now pulled a queen out of the hat and a lovely, fat, dark queen is busy laying lovely eggs. I marked her, admired her and then sat looking at the caged queen in my hand.

I know have a somewhat skimpy nuc made up with the purchased queen in it. Will ponder next step over the next week or so and see if she settles in.

Give me strength, this hobby is testing

That's bees for you. You plan one thing and they do something different. Good news on the mated queen though. Hope she gets going. Mine are a bit slow at the moment.

 

[enrico]

Oh patience is such a virtue!!!!!!
E

 

[BeeSpace]

Yep, that's what my Mum said- her first time in a beesuit, helping out and she stood there saying 'serves you right for being impatient with your bees'

 

[SDM]

Yep, that's what my Mum said- her first time in a beesuit, helping out and she stood there saying 'serves you right for being impatient with your bees'

Even the beginners are experts now, but your mum does show promise !!