Paynes Poly

[Red Bee]

So anybody out there bought a Paynes Poly hive? What do you think of them apart from the moulding hole Winker!! Lol

I've read Winkers review but would anybody else like to give their new purchase a review?

Cheers

 

[Nic Rhodes]

I will probably order 4 sets next week to try. I like what I was shown and the molding marks are a complete irrelevance for me, they are on all poly hives. It does not worry me one bit. I will paint over winter (picked my colour already ) and will transfer bees over in the spring.

 

[drstitson]

The moulding marks may be present on all poly hives BUT from what i have seen they are not usually located so as to compromise joints.

Whether in the real world having 4 potential tiny entrances around the top of the brood box is a problem remains to be seen (but finman has a larger hole at the top of his).


my only other immediate concern is that judging by the images the boxes are incompatible with standard mouseguards.

 

[Nic Rhodes]

never ever crossed my mind these would be big enough for bees, what I saw was not and looked to be covered by other bits anyway. I will buy and try. Bees are good at blocking all the extra holes we put on / in boxes.

 

[drstitson]

as they stand they are not big enough for bees BUT since they are a couple of mm deep and the inner circumference of the circle is immediately adjacent to the inner wall of the box that means that very little poly has to be chewed away to gain access.

probably not critical - perhaps use with wider framed QEs if worried - but bad design flaw - could so easily have been located centrally at the top of the wider pillars/buttresses rather than the thinnest part of the wall.

 

[Suzi Q]

I've only had bees 6 months, so not really qualified to judge, but it seems ok, The only thing is there is no entrance block supplied with it. Have tried a wooden entrance block and it fits except there is a 2 cm gap at one end. How could I block that up?

 

[Nic Rhodes]

Can't see bees chewing this material at all, they don't on the nucs. It is too dense / hard for them. Wasps, guess that is a theoretical possibility but still can't see it happening. Wasps chew harder poly than bees but whether they actually gain access here will be shown by testing over the next year or so. Personally I can't say it worries me any more than any other poly hive, especially at poly / wood interfaces or corners.

 

[oliver90owner]

My question would be: Is there a hole when a timber super is fitted.

If there is not, this 'groove' might just be there to drain away any water that runs down onto the poly surface, from the timber super(s) above.

RAB

 

[For want of a better word]

A question ... what do you paint them with, would garage floor paint be ok ( water soluble until set) ?

An answer... glue a bit of poly in the gap of the entrance blocker
A question .. what kind of glue?

 

[Winker]

Ok review time!

These are my own photos of the product and my own thoughts. Don't kick me for spellings or bad English I have bashed this review up in 20 minuets and not proof read it.

Lets start at the bottom with the floor.

My first thought are the floor is a nice thick sold looking bit of kit. It has been made to be backward compatible with wooden hives, which sit inside the rebates made for backward compatibility. But I have to ask why would you want to put a wooden brood box on a poly floor? Never the less you can if you so wish.

Unlike Panes Poly nucs the wire mesh for the floor is not extruded into the product. This time the mesh has been screwed into the poly using plaster board screw. On the two floor I got, the mesh was cut a bit on the tight side and would not sit properly and left humps and bumps in it. I had to take the mesh off and trim a bit off both to make them fit proper.

The floor has a built in landing pad for the bees, this looks nice but it may be a problem if your trying to transport a load of these any place, due to the space it take up.

As the pictures show the brood box sitting in-between the rebates




Next part is the Brood box.

I only have the 14X12 brood box at hand. The brood box measures 500mm square on the outside and will take 12 Hoffman frames or 11 Hoffman frames and a Dummy board (Standard National size on the inside). There is a slot extruded into the Brood box to allow a rail (which is supplied) to be fitted for the frames to sit on. If the rail is used the Brood box with give bottom bee space, if you choose not to fit the rail you will have top bee space.

The Brood box will fit on the Poly floor either in the warm way or the cold way and it fits nicely into the rebates made for backward compatibility. But if you want to use this Brood box with any other type of floor it may prove difficult due to the brood box being shaped to fit into its own floor.

The walls of the Brood box measure 40mm on the walls that don't hold the frames and 65mm on the walls that do hold the frames. But where the walls have had a rebate taken out for handle holds the wall measures 50mm on the sides where the frames sit and only 25mm on the other sides. This is not so bad on the 14X12 as the handle holds are lower down but on a normal brood box this will mean most of the 2 walls that don't hold the frames are only 25mm thick.


The Super

The super is the same external and internal sizes of the brood box and comes with the same option of inserting a rail for the frames to sit on. It also allows you fit a pair castellated spacers. The super is the same thickness as the brood box on each of the walls.

The feeder

The feeder sits on top of the hive and is of an adaptation on the miller design. The two walls that stop the bees getting into the syrup are meant to sit flush with the top of the feeder, they don't in this model. They stick up 12mm, I am not sure what the line of thinking was here. Once the roof is placed on top of the feeder there is space for the bees to run along the top inside edge and get into the feeder and drown! Looking at the roof it may have been designed to fit over this but it doesn’t! and there is a clear 12mm gap left between the roof and the feeder walls, which is more evident when you strap the roof down and see it bend over these two walls that protrude over the top of the feeder.

The roof

The roof is a snug fit over the top of a Brood box or a super and it has a slot extruded along the top for the hive strap to run along.


Summery

Every single part that I had delivered had to be filled with a poly repair kit. This was due to either the holes that are stamped into the top of this hive wall during manufacture (See my pervious post) or dents in the side walls again due to sloppy manufacturing.

The poly is being described a s being a high density material, 100g/litre. If this is true its extramly soft and dents and scraches extramly easly. I have put a few dents in one of the supers just trying to get the frame rails out with my figers.

There are a few other design flaws but these are minor and cosmetic and don't detract from its usability.

Marks out of 10 would be: 6 out of 10

 

[Stiffy]

Nice honest review and blimey, if you did it in 20 minutes well done!
Thanks
S

 

[drstitson]

"If there is not, this 'groove' might just be there to drain away any water that runs down onto the poly surface, from the timber super(s) above."

rab - we're not talking about the paired moulded inclines around the top edges of the boxes. they sit outwith the area cover by next box (wood or poly). what is the concern is the approx 1" round impressions on the top edge part under the wall of next box. check your MB nucs - you'll see similar marks of varying depth on the outer faces. These vary in depth from probably <1mm to a couple of mm. likely to give jaspers a head start. poor design in my book - especially given the cost of the tooling.

 

[Red Bee]

Cheers Winker good review.

 

[oliver90owner]

drstitson,

Sorry Dr S. Perhaps I should have included a few more emoticons? 'avin' a larf really. I'll stick with my one MB, now, for the winter.

Are they 'one inch round' or 1-2mm? Larfing again!

If it is only a 1mm indent and either does not show on the outside (I daresay it does) and there is at least 15mm of wall contact surface with no indent, I would have thought the discussion was perhaps a bit of a 'storm in a teacup', until further evidence is available. If the indent is 2mm and there is one on both contact surfaces in the same location, that may be a little different but, if a genuine 100kg per metre cubed density, I doubt there would be any chewing even by wasps.

One needs to have a small gap in which to insert the hive tool, after all, to separate the boxes at some point?

I'll dive off now and let the subject fester a bit, as I am def not buying at this present time.

RAB

 

[itma]

Ok review time!

These are my own photos of the product and my own thoughts. ...

Thanks for your review, but those photos do seem kinda familiar!

I wonder if you could tell us (OK, me) some more about the roof?

How tightly does it fit? Not concerned about stickiness at all, for now, its a matter of ventilation. The Paynes poly nuc's lid doesn't do venting. Does the hive roof? Does it have moulded in 'matchsticks' or other deliberate means of allowing airflow (without insect passage) for summer?
Presumably, its intended to use a conventional crown board? Or are we into plastic sheet like the nuc?
I'd have thought that a plastic sheet cover might be used for closing off venting for winter, but that probably wouldn't be such a good idea for summer ...
And that some sort of crownboard would be needed to prevent the lid being stuck down with prop, inaccessible to a hive tool (like the nuc without a plastic sheet).

You mentioned how the floor fits to a wooden brood box, but I suspect that the use of wooden-framed QXs, and crown or clearer boards might be much more usual. How do you see that?
And how about roof to wooden crownboard?

Any comment on the entrance itself?
Does it take a standard Nat entrance block?
How about fitting a mouse excluder?

And the floor - what sort of a hive stand would you expect it to work with? (Or not to work with!)


We always want to hear more... !

 

[Winker]

Thanks for your review, but those photos do seem kinda familiar!

I wonder if you could tell us (OK, me) some more about the roof?

How tightly does it fit? Not concerned about stickiness at all, for now, its a matter of ventilation. The Paynes poly nuc's lid doesn't do venting. Does the hive roof? Does it have moulded in 'matchsticks' or other deliberate means of allowing airflow (without insect passage) for summer?
Presumably, its intended to use a conventional crown board? Or are we into plastic sheet like the nuc?
I'd have thought that a plastic sheet cover might be used for closing off venting for winter, but that probably wouldn't be such a good idea for summer ...
And that some sort of crownboard would be needed to prevent the lid being stuck down with prop, inaccessible to a hive tool (like the nuc without a plastic sheet).

You mentioned how the floor fits to a wooden brood box, but I suspect that the use of wooden-framed QXs, and crown or clearer boards might be much more usual. How do you see that?
And how about roof to wooden crownboard?

Any comment on the entrance itself?
Does it take a standard Nat entrance block?
How about fitting a mouse excluder?

And the floor - what sort of a hive stand would you expect it to work with? (Or not to work with!)


We always want to hear more... !

Those are My photos, I took them in my own photo studio, i own the copy right on them, if you see them being used else where without my permission let me know.

The roof is a tight fit, no venting in the roof, the crown board is a piece of clear Perspex 2mm thick.

I use and tested it with the slotted metal QE which fits fine, so does the plastic one it came with.

The entrance is something I forgot to mention, with its strange moulded front you can forget using a normal mouse guard and you will need to make a custom entrance reducer, which is simple enough with a bit of wood. I was thinking of a mouse excluder made from wood with loads of nails at 8mm gaps would do the trick

¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬

the floor is only any good with the poly BB, I see no reason to buy the poly floor to use on a wooden hive although it would function perfectly


Edit: A side note on the photo's. I offered Mr Payne the use of them as his photos were/are of a poor standard, but since I moaned about the holes on the hive walls I think he took a disliking for me and turned down my offer.

 

[itma]

Those are My photos, I took them in my own photo studio, i own the copy right on them, if you see them being used else where without my permission let me know. ...

Edit: A side note on the photo's. I offered Mr Payne the use of them as his photos were/are of a poor standard, but since I moaned about the holes on the hive walls I think he took a disliking for me and turned down my offer.

My apologies, I was sure that I'd seen (some?) of them before somewhere!

Is the underside of the floor plain and flat, or does it have detailing like the poly nuc's 'feet'?

Anyway, I too am becoming a bit more disappointed with this design the more I hear. And I need to thank you for "boldly going" and potentially saving me from a parcel-opening letdown. The variation of wall-thickness from 65 to 25mm seems very strange.
And maybe there's something I'm 'not getting', but I'd have thought that a total lack of any summer venting of the supers would make the evaporating down of honey more difficult, and thus be less productive.

 

[JamezF]

I'm having thoughts about getting a few poly hives this winter to try out next year. I'd like to stick with the national cross section so I can continue to use my wooden supers, so as far as I can tell that means MB, Payne or Beehive Supplies.

The impression I get is that people like the MB hives, though there's a bit of discussion about the "lip", and they don't yet have a 14x12.

The Payne ones don't seem to have really impressed people compared with the MBs, specifically because of the holes in the tops of the walls and the apparent lack of density in the material, so they wouldn't really be my first choice.

The Beehive Supplies ones are something of a mystery. I can only find one review online which isn't particularly informative. They do get a brief positive mention on the BFA website. Anyone care to admit having one of these or seen one in the flesh?

James

 

[oliver90owner]

Anyone care to admit having one of these or seen one in the flesh?

Not me - bottom bee space for a start, so not compatible with my kit without a 'bee space eke' for the broods and probably a lot of swearing!

Looking closely at the photos on their website it appears the boxes are box jointed - open mortice and tenon. I may be wrong, so easiest to ask them, I would think. If they are they may not be quite as robust as the closed morticed joints on some other boxes - but probably only if dropped from a great height, while full, onto a corner - and may not be important if securely glued together (not glued any of my poly hives together).

They are a lot closer to you than most of us? Maybe go and have a look for the rest of the forum? They are listed as an on-line shop only, though

They had a peculiar pricing system regards shipping in that the delivery price is included in the price and there doesn't seem to be an actual cost of the item plus a delivery (which may not change incrementally as the number of hives ordered....if you see what I mean).

Regards, RAB

 

[JamezF]

My reading of the pictures was that the sides appear to dovetail into each other. Quite possibly I'm mistaken though.

I have at some point to go down to Snozzle this winter, so I might see if I can drop by on my way past unless someone else has piped up.

James