Paynes Poly National Feeder

[Beecarer]

Just wondering if anyone on here uses these feeders. Had quiet a few drownings even with the sand added as a grip for them to climb on so I put some scaffold mesh screen draped down into the syrup and there is only a few drowning now.

One big headache is when you want to refill it and they have come down to the bottom of the syrup the feeder compartments become black with bees licking up the last of the sweet 'nectar', I tried smoking them out but its just too time consuming so I just leave it for a few days until they have it all completely cleaned up and then refill it. I might have to add a strip of hard plastic mesh along the bottom of the removable panels to keep them out until I want them to go in and clean it out completely.

Sand Painted onto feeder

Feeding happily away

 

[Thymallus]

Yes, I have a few. Occasional drownings happen.
For refilling just add syrup slowly, bees will back up the ramps as you add syrup.
The backup of bees looks more impressive in one of those plastic rapid feeders

 

[Beecarer]

Yes, I have a few. Occasional drownings happen.
For refilling just add syrup slowly, bees will back up the ramps as you add syrup.
The backup of bees looks more impressive in one of those plastic rapid feeders

Thanks Thymallus, Ill give that a try on the next refill. Do you think its ok to treat the bees with Apiguard using a 50mm eke with this feeder on top? The dead mites are gathering on the plastic insert tray so it seems to be working away.

 

[Nige.Coll]

Think of them as death in service bees
They didn't drown

 

[Goodwood]

I got fed up with the drownings.
I had also added sand mixed with glue to aid the grip but it made no real difference.
I cut off the inner "wings" and the thinner outer walls
I then had a fourish inch gap over which I placed one of the outer walls horizontally.
I cut a hole in this new floor and now use the whole thing as an eke within which I place a 2 litre circular rapid feeder.
Works well.

 

[itma]

I know of a few people who have added mesh (of one sort or another) under the removable panels to prevent bee-access to the tanks when the level gets low.
The alternative is to top up before the level gets that low ...

 

[mbc]

I have loads of wooden feeders a bit like this but with no baffle, I stuff the feed areas with wood wool or grass/braken/gors etc and drowning is minimal. Just let the bees at the feed with something to climb up on and there's no mad rush of crowding which is what often drowns bees.

 

[Swarm]

Any lake of syrup should have straw or similar added.

 

[Beecarer]

Same problem again today when I checked it seems they are getting in under the roof and into the feed compartments the reason I suspect this is when I opened up one of the hives there was a few bees floating on top of the syrup who were dry on top as they had not yet submerge themselves in it, there was also some wasps drowned. I cut pieces of cardboard to act as covers on the feed compartments and well see now if that stops it.
I removed the scaffold mesh because I thought it was now a problem with the hive roof but when I went back an hour later just to check, the feed compartment was full of drowned bees again, Oops!, Ive now taken the advice and put plenty of grass into the feed area, hopefully tomorrow I wont find many drowned now.

I have a some of the Paynes poly nucs and the feed compartments in these have no sloping side down to the feed just a 90 degree drop with a piece of wood floating in it and I rarely find any drowned bees in these, I already tried putting strips of wood into the national feeder but the bees got stuck inside the feed compartments by piece of wood and then went crazy for being confined in there.

How can a product with this much mayhem be released onto the market, Ive lost a huge number of bees now because of them.

 

[Beecarer]

I got fed up with the drownings.
I had also added sand mixed with glue to aid the grip but it made no real difference.
I cut off the inner "wings" and the thinner outer walls
I then had a fourish inch gap over which I placed one of the outer walls horizontally.
I cut a hole in this new floor and now use the whole thing as an eke within which I place a 2 litre circular rapid feeder.
Works well.

Good to know I'm not the only one who is having trouble with these. Have you a picture of this modification for housing a rapid feeder inside the Paynes national feeder? I will be carving these up myself tomorrow if I see anymore carnage in them.

 

[itma]

Same problem again today when I checked it seems they are getting in under the roof and into the feed compartments the reason I suspect this is when I opened up one of the hives there was a few bees floating on top of the syrup who were dry on top as they had not yet submerge themselves in it, there was also some wasps drowned. I cut pieces of cardboard to act as covers on the feed compartments and well see now if that stops it.
I removed the scaffold mesh because I thought it was now a problem with the hive roof but when I went back an hour later just to check, the feed compartment was full of drowned bees again, Oops!, Ive now taken the advice and put plenty of grass into the feed area, hopefully tomorrow I wont find many drowned now.
...

The hive roof is supposed to be the 'lid' of the feeder tanks.
This may be a problem if you have the "old-style" roofs, which are a tight fit especially on the newer production (denser) boxes which seem to "spring back" and expand a little after they come out of the mould. The new, deeper roof that fits more loosely (even on those newer boxes) should seal well against the feeder. If it rocks, it ain't sitting and sealing properly.

Another thing that occurs to me is that, with the feeder in place, you'd have removed your coverboard (or even the Paynes flimsy). I'd put that over the feeder, and make sure that it is sitting tight to the feeder (clean round the edges?) before fitting the roof. That should completely stop robbing from the top.

As I noted above, if the syrup level is allowed to drop too low in an unmodified feeder, the bees can get under the 'weir' (the removable outer supports for the small clear cover). Once under it, they may well drown. So, keep the thing topped up so they can't get underneath, or make the small modification suggested.

 

[Goodwood]

sent you PM beecarer
for some reason I cannot upload photos but can email you them

 

[Larry A. Peterson]

I really like top feeders!

I don't like drowning bees though and so I have taken a few steps to improve them (the feeders). I made up some screened shims to go over the feeder. I switched to the migratory lid/top and used "gorilla glue on the bottom edges of the screen and let it bubble up to close the gaps where the poorly fitted screen left entry gaps. I'm not sure this is the answer but maybe a step in the right direction.

Please accept my sincere thanx to those contributing ideas to this subject.

Best wishes, LP

 

[Beecarer]

The hive roof is supposed to be the 'lid' of the feeder tanks.
This may be a problem if you have the "old-style" roofs, which are a tight fit especially on the newer production (denser) boxes which seem to "spring back" and expand a little after they come out of the mould. The new, deeper roof that fits more loosely (even on those newer boxes) should seal well against the feeder. If it rocks, it ain't sitting and sealing properly.

Another thing that occurs to me is that, with the feeder in place, you'd have removed your coverboard (or even the Paynes flimsy). I'd put that over the feeder, and make sure that it is sitting tight to the feeder (clean round the edges?) before fitting the roof. That should completely stop robbing from the top.

As I noted above, if the syrup level is allowed to drop too low in an unmodified feeder, the bees can get under the 'weir' (the removable outer supports for the small clear cover). Once under it, they may well drown. So, keep the thing topped up so they can't get underneath, or make the small modification suggested.

Thanks for the info.

All was well today when I looked into the feeders, the cardbaord covers worked!, I must have the old Roofs so, I had the Paynes flimsy coverboard left on top of the feeders always but they were still getting, Ill get some polycarbonate now and make some transparent covers for feed tanks.

I wonder would hessian fabric work instead of the grass / straw its a bit messy with all that floating around in the syrup.

 

[Beecarer]

sent you PM beecarer
for some reason I cannot upload photos but can email you them

Thanks for that sent my email there.

The way I posted images on here was firstly uploading them onto the website www.imgur.com (no account needed), At the top of the screen on that website is "upload images" click on that, then "browse your computer" find the image you want and click "start upload" once its uploaded from your computer on there it will show you a list of different codes you can use, at the bottom of the list of codes are various sizes, I choose large thumbnail for the ones posted earlier on this thread, after you select the size copy the text in the box titled "BBCode (message boards & forums)" and past it into the message your composing, it should appear then once you click submit reply.

If you're not happy with the size just change it and edit your post pasting in the new code from imgur.

Imgur website selections circled in red in the above image

 

[Beecarer]

Thinking about a solution to the problem with these feeders it would be a big help if the base of the feeder was at a slope (1 inch higher on the outside) so the liquid feed would be forced across to the centre feed channel and reducing the gap at the bottom of the removable inserts to less than that of bee space so they can't go into it while it's empty, these can be removed at the end of feeding when you want them to go in and clean it out throughly.

The center feed channel should be much narrower the same as the poly nuc with the wooden stick floating in it, there's never any drownings in the nucs even though they have a 90 degree climb into it.

 

[bpmurray]

I found that the central removable pieces protrude slightly above the sides - almost caused the death of one of my hives because it meat that the roof wasn't flush and the wasps got in. I took a hammer to them and squashed them down so now the roof sits tight over the feeder. That is the only (and last) one of these feeders I'll use - just too dangerous.

 

[Cussword]

Maisie's nice have a similar feeder. I've not really had a problem with them.

.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

never had a problem with either the Maisies or Payne's top feeders - to avoid bees creeping into the main reservoir - keep it topped up.
Sounda like a lot of user error to me - never had to adjust any of them with a hammer!

 

[Cussword]

Maisie's nice have a similar feeder. I've not really had a problem with them.

Maisie's NUCS.... Sorry.