Paradise or abelo poly national.

[Boston Bees]

Sorry I couldn’t wait any longer for replies so I’ve gone ahead and ordered two. My bees are building up so slowly that it’ll still be no bother to move frames over in a few weeks time.

Sorry, I think very few people have these hives yet which is probably why you didn't get answers.

I don't have one, but my answers would be:

1 Will my Smith short top bars still fit on the Abelo frame runners I’m assuming they will.
Yes, it takes national frames so, by definition, Smith frames will fit

2 Will the poly crown board house porter bee escapes and if not how do you use it as a clearing board.
No, it won't. So you don't. You would need to find some other solution for a clearer board (I would say just use a national wooden clearer board, but because this is a larger format hive I am not sure this will work. This is the disadvantage of buying a bespoke non-national format hive). If you had gone for one of the older format Abelos this wouldn't be an issue, though pros and cons of course.

3 Will the plastic tray under the floor cut down on the draught through the mesh floor (it would be handy in the winter time).
Yes

4 It looks like to me that the frames run the warm way. Having never worked hives the warm way are there any issues with that?
I would assume that the boxes can be rotated to be warm way or cold way, so don't worry about that. As for warm vs cold, google it - there's lots of discussions on that questions. Overall though, it really doesn't matter.

Let us know how you find them.

 

[lindsay s]

Thanks for the reply Boston Bees, I have been doing a bit more research since I posted about this hive and I came to the same conclusions as you on my first 3 questions.
1 I intended to glue a strip of wood along the frame runners to close the gap left by my short top bars to stop them shoggling about.
2 I’ve ordered a couple of their round 8 way bee escapes that might fit below the round hole in the crown board. If not then I’ll bodge something for the bee escapes after all they are only on for a few days in the year.
3 The reason I was asking about the OMF floor is because I ran wood OMF’s with correx along side solid floors for about 4-5 years and found the OMF made little difference. I ended up having to seal them up for the winter but I like them in my poly nucs.
4 l started my beekeeping with a Smith hive and have stuck with them since. I have even tried a few of them with 14x12 brood boxes (but that’s another story). Although I’ve heard of the warm way I never gave it much thought until now. Yes I googled it and I also found a thread on this forum. It’s a debate I would like to stay out of.
I’m not an expert beekeeper but I’ve learned enough over the years to get by. So I’m going to try something new and already some my fellow beekeepers are dying to see the hives when they arrive. Updates to follow.

 

[elainemary]

Paradise is not compatible with standard wood National kit because boxes have a lip which interlocks with the next. Abelo is entirely compatible with BBS wood National kit.

Paradise arrives as an unpainted flatpack; Abelo is a one-piece box ready painted.

I mix Abelo with wooden Nationals; the Abelo plastic box rims are useful; the latest design is entirely satisfactory.

Modern beekeeping supply Paradise pre assembled and painted.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

For when you need a clearer board I would just buy a a rhombus escape and pin it over the central hole

 

[user 20297]

So I’m going to try something new and already some my fellow beekeepers are dying to see the hives when they arrive.

You will all like the Abelo hives, but I think you might have been better with the older type for compatibility with other equipment types. With fewer frames they would also be closer to Smith size. I always strap mine together here, in a windy spot near Inverness, and you will doubtless need to do that anywhere in Orkney. I've bought quite a few of the Abelo boxes separately as they are so good..

I had never considered how to fit escapes, but as far as inputting things to the hive, Abelo has it covered. I particularly like the way the newer crownboards are designed to fit a specific Asworth feeder and the removable plugs in the boxes are potentially quite handy despite some people drawing a blank when considering how they could be used.

The undertrays can be a bit awkward to put back until you get the knack. They leave a smallish gap, even when fully inserted, but it seems about right to provide a minimum amount of ventilation.

Good luck with them and keep us posted

 

[lindsay s]

Thanks Beebe. Weighing or strapping down hives is standard practice here and its even more needed in the winter. It’s one of the first things we tell our beginners because storm force winds are common. When I first got my poly nucs I thought they might end up in Norway but I haven’t lost any yet!
The reason I’ve gone for the 12 frame poly hive is that the rebates on my nucs work well at keeping them dry so I hope this will be the same. Top bee space is what I’m used with and the 12 frame has just one more than my Smiths. If it’s too many I can always dummy down.
One brood and three supers per hive will be more than enough for here and I intend to stick with my short top bar Smith frames. I have enough Smith kit to make up 14 full size hives (it’s the dominant hive here) so I need the poly hive frames to be interchangeable. If the Abelo hives are successful I might get some more but I barely have enough time to manage more than 8-10 hives and a few nucs. We can have days and days of inclement weather and suddenly all of our bees need attention at once.

 

[linoleum bonypart]

Abelo for me just don't buy Swienty

 

[Gilberdyke John]

For when you need a clearer board I would just buy a a rhombus escape and pin it over the central hole

I used a couple of dabs of silicone seal to stop the four corner discs from falling about when the poly crown board is handled and used the same method to affix a rhombus bee escape to the underside of the central hole. Under normal running I have clear polycarbonate crown boards but if I ever did need to resurrect the Abelo crown board a razor blade would soon sort out the dabs of silicone seal.

 

[Arfermo]

I'd always be suspicious of any circumstances where I have to smear my rim with vasaline

It can help!!

 

[lindsay s]

I’ve had my new 12 frame poly Nationals home for a week now and have been showing them to some of the more experienced beekeepers here. (Covid safe of course) The feedback has been fairly positive and with minor adaptations they should suit our short top bar frames because most of us run Smith hives. I have gone and ordered a third one and a friend has just received two of the Abelo 6 frame poly nucs plus one of their hives.

Here’s my first impressions before the bees move in.

I like the new design of the crownboard with only one large central hole and a small feeder hole. Their mini Ashforth feeder holds 2.4L about the same as my round plastic feeders and sits under the roof without the need for an additional box / eke. But be aware Thornes round feeders are not compatible due to the central rebate and I’m not sure if Abelos current poly feeder will fit the on the rebates of the brood box.

I like that the rebates should keep out any water ingress. The floor and entrance are well thought out and the top bee space is what I have always been used with.

My one disappointment with this hive is that the wire queen excluder sits flush on the frames inside the rebates and will have to be carefully prised up with a hive tool. I’ve always been used with framed queen excluders with bee space on one side and it’s a pity that Abelo couldn’t come up with the same for this hive. One of my friends had a National plastic Q E that did sit on the rebates but it’s libel to sag and I don’t have any National kit.

I’m going to run 11 frames plus one Kingspan dummy per box, I have fitted strips of wood along the frame runners to keep my short lugged frames in the right position and I will just have to be very careful with the queen excluders! Hopefully when weather improves which currently looks a long way off I’ll move the in.

 

[Swarm]

The frame would sit directly on that plastic rim. I'm guessing here but I'm thinking the rebate under any box going on top would not cover the excluder frame and thereby not locking in place.

 

[Murox]

I’ve had my new 12 frame poly Nationals home for a week now and have been showing them to some of the more experienced beekeepers here. (Covid safe of course) The feedback has been fairly positive and with minor adaptations they should suit our short top bar frames because most of us run Smith hives. I have gone and ordered a third one........snip.................I’m going to run 11 frames plus one Kingspan dummy per box, I have fitted strips of wood along the frame runners to keep my short lugged frames in the right position and I will just have to be very careful with the queen excluders! Hopefully when weather improves which currently looks a long way off I’ll move the in.
View attachment 26069View attachment 26070View attachment 26071

Are these their new, 12 frame national poly with top bee space ??

 

[lindsay s]

The frame would sit directly on that plastic rim. I'm guessing here but I'm thinking the rebate under any box going on top would not cover the excluder frame and thereby not locking in place.

You are right Swarm, the plastic excluder sat directly on the brood box rim, it raised the super a few millimetres and although a little bit shoogly it was still covered. We also tried a framed wired National excluder on the rebates, it sat ok but raised the super so high that it couldn’t cover the bottom rebates (I can’t guarantee that the excluders were the correct National fit).
In answer to Murox it’s Yes.
https://www.abelo.co.uk/shop/nation...oly-hive/12-frame-premium-national-poly-hive/

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The more I'd hearing about this new 'improved' abelo hive, the more I'm thinking it's a bit of an abortion.

 

[Erichalfbee]

The more I'd hearing about this new 'improved' abelo hive, the more I'm thinking it's a bit of an abortion.

I love Abelo hives. The old style. A top space one would be the cats whiskers but not this one.

 

[lindsay s]

The more I'd hearing about this new 'improved' abelo hive, the more I'm thinking it's a bit of an abortion.

I wouldn’t quite call it that but it’s disappointing that a top bee space hive doesn’t have space for the bees below the queen excluder. I have half a dozen Thornes Everynucs and they’re far from perfect but after a bit of adaptation I’ve managed to get my bees through the winter in good nick for the last few years. It’s because of my ploy nucs that I’m willing to give the Abelo rebate hives a try. My friend has just received two Abelo 6 frame National poly nucs. They are a massive improvement on my Everynucs but they have far too many holes with plugs in the floor and the crownboard so that’s put me off them for the moment.

 

[mbc]

The more I'd hearing about this new 'improved' abelo hive, the more I'm thinking it's a bit of an abortion.

Yup, their 11 frame poly brood box is the best on the market for national equipment imho, seems strange they've invested so much on a non compatible alternative.

 

[user 20297]

Yup, their 11 frame poly brood box is the best on the market for national equipment imho, seems strange they've invested so much on a non compatible alternative.

Yes, the standard Abelo boxes are perfect for me. I've not seen the new version up close, but they appear to have fitted the same system of interlock as used on their nuc boxes, and I do have some of those. That makes sense in a smaller box which is designed to be more likely to be transported significant distances and which is easier to manoeuvre to avoid crushing bees, but potentially has more drawbacks than advantages in a full hive .

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

If the Queen Excluder is meant to be sunk into the rebate on this new hive - it's going to be great fun digging it out at eack inspection once the propolis builds up.

 

[Swn58]

I’ve had my new 12 frame poly Nationals home for a week now

I had twelve unpainted Abelo 12 frame hives delivered on Friday. I've not had the time to give them a good 'going over' yet. I've got a lot of painting to do in the coming weeks!