Paradise or abelo poly national.

[Boston Bees]

So with interlocking boxes what sort of QX is used?

As yet unclear. But the answer will be "an Abelo one"

 

[Angry_Mob]

£30 premium I think? £175 vs £145 for a painted hive

Ops, yes £30 difference. Should be £30 less for a paying into a propriety system IMO.

 

[Boston Bees]

Should be £30 less for a paying into a propriety system IMO.

Yes, that's the main issue here isn't it.

12 frames will attract some people I guess, as will top bee space. But Paradise already offer the latter (also with interlocking boxes), at a much lower price.

Dunno - might be a hit, or might not.

 

[tidymeup]

I think the Paradise kit is generally overlooked in the UK, probably back from when it was first available here. There was so much resistance to "THE LIP", but this is now seen as a plus to prevent water ingress and provided stability.

My hives are standing the test of time so far at 12 years old, plus time timber stuff is starting to get cut up for firewood and replace with poly.

Most nucs have a lip and even Abelo are reinventing their hives to include this, the paradise does offer a good degree of compatibility. I look at this a little more commercially that I want a system to work with.

I don't want to chop and change but to standardise, in that respect the paradise is a good option with standard hive parts that work together even when they have seen some updates.

The Paradise honey hives are using by the millions worldwide and as a system of working is hugely successful and popular.

 

[Erichalfbee]

As yet unclear. But the answer will be "an Abelo one"

Yes. I asked them on their Twitter feed and that is the answer I got. They are also working on a 14x12

 

[Hedgerow Honey]

Paradise 14x12 should be available sometime this year hopefully

 

[derekm]

in thermal conductance tests the Paradise hive came out the worst of those tested.

 

[Gunner]

I wish Abelo would produce their new nucleus box in 14x12. I have asked but got a negative response.

 

[Boston Bees]

in thermal conductance tests the Paradise hive came out the worst of those tested.

Interesting

Link to source please (not behind a pay wall hopefully)

Thanks

 

[derekm]

1. Mitchell D. 2016 Ratios of colony mass to thermal conductance of tree and man-made nest enclosures of Apis mellifera: implications for survival, clustering, humidity regulation and Varroa destructor. Int. J. Biometeorol. 60, 629–638. (doi:10.1007/s00484-015-1057-z)
The tests were conducted in 2012 -2013

 

[Boston Bees]

1. Mitchell D. 2016 Ratios of colony mass to thermal conductance of tree and man-made nest enclosures of Apis mellifera: implications for survival, clustering, humidity regulation and Varroa destructor. Int. J. Biometeorol. 60, 629–638. (doi:10.1007/s00484-015-1057-z)
The tests were conducted in 2012 -2013

That's not a link

 

[Erichalfbee]

That's not a link

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...360e/1556213933897/Mitchell+Ratio+Of+Mass.pdf

 

[Boston Bees]

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...360e/1556213933897/Mitchell+Ratio+Of+Mass.pdf

Interesting, thanks

Needs to be updated now Abelo have arrived with the denser poly

 

[Gunner]

I wish Abelo would produce their new nucleus box in 14x12. I have asked but got a negative response.

Spoke to Damien at Abelo today and there are plans for a 14 x12 version of their new nuc box. Hopefully might arrive this autumn.

 

[derekm]

Interesting, thanks

Needs to be updated now Abelo have arrived with the denser poly

Interestingly expanded polystyrene doesnt change much with density so its all down to thickness and elimination of cold spots from things like hand holds

 

[Boston Bees]

Interestingly expanded polystyrene doesnt change much with density so its all down to thickness and elimination of cold spots from things like hand holds

That's interesting. As it happens I was comparing the thickness of my new Abelo poly hive today with the thickness of a Paynes hive I have. I wasn't entirely comfortable with the result. There are some areas on the Abelo which are only 1.8cm thick (vs min 2.7cm width on the Paynes). They aren't very large areas - the handholds, as you say, but they are large enough. Would this be a problem do you think?

The weight of an Abelo super is 1.35kg, vs 1.63kg for the Paynes, despite the poly being 60% denser, if that helps.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Interestingly expanded polystyrene doesnt change much with density so its all down to thickness and elimination of cold spots from things like hand holds

Intriguing, Derek.

I recall ITLD describing a sweet spot between density, weight and insulation value at about 120g/l.
Early poly - I've just been cleaning out some Park boxes - were 100 and relatively soft. By comparison, Abelo's steam-moulded poly is 160g/l.

 

[derekm]

increases density increases toughness but increases weight for same volume, more weight means more cost, more volume means more insulation.
Hence ITLD's sweet spot.

 

[Boston Bees]

increases density increases toughness but increases weight for same volume, more weight means more cost, more volume means more insulation.
Hence ITLD's sweet spot.

Are you saying that the insulation provided by two pieces of poly of identical thickness is the same, regardless of the density of the poly?

 

[derekm]

That's interesting. As it happens I was comparing the thickness of my new Abelo poly hive today with the thickness of a Paynes hive I have. I wasn't entirely comfortable with the result. There are some areas on the Abelo which are only 1.8cm thick (vs min 2.7cm width on the Paynes). They aren't very large areas - the handholds, as you say, but they are large enough. Would this be a problem do you think?

The weight of an Abelo super is 1.35kg, vs 1.63kg for the Paynes, despite the poly being 60% denser, if that helps.

That would imply that the Abelo has very much less expanded foam in its construction which might imply less insulation... but it would have to be tested