Paradise or abelo poly national.

[Erichalfbee]

If the Queen Excluder is meant to be sunk into the rebate on this new hive - it's going to be great fun digging it out at eack inspection once the propolis builds up.

Yes. Why don’t they think if these things or did Nigel have a hand in the design?
I love my Abelo broods but have top space so I simply glued a beespace eke on top.

 

[user 819]

Maybe the wheel wasn't round enough.

 

[Boston Bees]

Maybe the wheel wasn't round enough.

In this particular case the wheel was perfectly round but apparently leaked, so they had to redesign it to eliminate the leaks, but in the process appear to have made the wheel a bit squarer.....

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Yes. Why don’t they think if these things or did Nigel have a hand in the design?

 

[Garry R]

Sorry, I think very few people have these hives yet which is probably why you didn't get answers.

I don't have one, but my answers would be:

1 Will my Smith short top bars still fit on the Abelo frame runners I’m assuming they will.
Yes, it takes national frames so, by definition, Smith frames will fit

2 Will the poly crown board house porter bee escapes and if not how do you use it as a clearing board.
No, it won't. So you don't. You would need to find some other solution for a clearer board (I would say just use a national wooden clearer board, but because this is a larger format hive I am not sure this will work. This is the disadvantage of buying a bespoke non-national format hive). If you had gone for one of the older format Abelos this wouldn't be an issue, though pros and cons of course.

3 Will the plastic tray under the floor cut down on the draught through the mesh floor (it would be handy in the winter time).
Yes

4 It looks like to me that the frames run the warm way. Having never worked hives the warmThe way are there any issues with that?
I would assume that the boxes can be rotated to be warm way or cold way, so don't worry about that. As for warm vs cold, google it - there's lots of discussions on that questions. Overall though, it really doesn't matter.

Let us know how you find them.

I have Langstroth Honeypaw hives which are supplied in the flat. To convert to national frames cut a fillet out or the top of the long walls to the correct depth on a circular table top saw for the frames to rest on. You can decide top or bottom beespace. The piece of wastage can be stuck back into the original rebate. The sides are reassembled with a few drops of gorilla glue. Get the boxes from Norfolk supplier as he does them in the flat but not all suppliers do. I don't get floors or roofs from them - I make my own from recycled pallet boards and cover with roofing felt - they last for years. External ddimensions are 54 x 45cm


The brood boxes take 12 frames self spaced. The lugs on the frames will be shortened to Smith length. The side bee space in these hives set up that way is perfect. You, of course, have to cut off the bottom of the brood box to the correct depth for National brood frames I use a band saw. The piece you cut off the bottom can be used as an eke for fondant feeding - again no wastage. I have used this for over 40 years now (some of the boxes are the original) and they are painted from the start with dark brown masonry paint which is great for keeping the UV light out which is the polystyrene killer.

The pictures show the tops of the super which the cut outs are the same but I have used castellated spacers for this not self spacing frames but hope you get the idea.

I also use these for supers but that's another story. OK it is all a bit of work but the boxes are simple and cheap. If anyone wants to contact me for further info please do. I do not have any connection with Honeypaw.

 

[user 20297]

I love my Abelo broods but have top space so I simply glued a beespace eke on top.

I don't really "get" the issue; top bee-space v. bottom bee-space.
If anything, I can see advantages for leaving as-is with the Abelo or any other standard(ish) BS.National: I know many people hate the frameless (plastic) QX's, but at least, with bottom space, the QX has the tops of the frames for support when using one.

Whether space is top or bottom, when assembled, it's the same space.

 

[Murox]

I don't really "get" the issue; top bee-space v. bottom bee-space.
If anything, I can see advantages for leaving as-is with the Abelo or any other standard(ish) BS.National: I know many people hate the frameless (plastic) QX's, but at least, with bottom space, the QX has the tops of the frames for support when using one.

Whether space is top or bottom, when assembled, it's the same space.

What happens each time you remove the plastic excluder from a bottom bee space hive?

 

[Erichalfbee]

I don't really "get" the issue; top bee-space v. bottom bee-space.
If anything, I can see advantages for leaving as-is with the Abelo or any other standard(ish) BS.National: I know many people hate the frameless (plastic) QX's, but at least, with bottom space, the QX has the tops of the frames for support when using one.

Whether space is top or bottom, when assembled, it's the same space.

Well that’s up to you.
I started just like everybody else with bottom space but decided pretty quickly that having space at the top I crushed fewer bees. My QXs are framed and wired so don’t need support and my crown boards have a bee space rim one side. Flip them over and there is lots of space for fondant or pollen sub without having to use an eke.

 

[user 20297]

What happens each time you remove the plastic excluder from a bottom bee space hive?

I don't know; should something special happen?

 

[lindsay s]

If the Queen Excluder is meant to be sunk into the rebate on this new hive - it's going to be great fun digging it out at eack inspection once the propolis builds up.

Propolis is not much of a problem up here even in the towns. Brace comb might make life interesting!

 

[tidymeup]

Modern beekeeping supply Paradise pre assembled and painted.

Correct, assembled and painted.

Also you can mix and match your timber components with the Paradise hives and it's no more or less a compromise then it would be with say the Payne's or Maisemore poly hives. The other difference is that you can actually use your timber room as it fits over the top of the box.

Some one also mentioned bee space between boxes being incorrect but this is not the case.

Also mention of non standard excluder and again this is the case with other poly hives and they use over sized excluders but if you wish you could easily use a wooden rimmed excluder with the paradise hive.

 

[lindsay s]

I had twelve unpainted Abelo 12 frame hives delivered on Friday. I've not had the time to give them a good 'going over' yet. I've got a lot of painting to do in the coming weeks!

Hi Swn58
I was more than happy with the colours of my sage green and grey finished Abelo’s but after seeing your paint job on another thread I’m extremely jealous. Although I’ll deduct one mark because you missed out the entrance reducer
I’ve had bees in mine for about a week now and as soon as the weather improves I will see how they are doing. Have you got any opinions on them yet?

 

[Swn58]

Hi Swn58
I was more than happy with the colours of my sage green and grey finished Abelo’s but after seeing your paint job on another thread I’m extremely jealous. Although I’ll deduct one mark because you missed out the entrance reducer
I’ve had bees in mine for about a week now and as soon as the weather improves I will see how they are doing. Have you got any opinions on them yet?

Hi Linsay!
Today I took a quick look at the bees I housed in the first Abelo. They seemed pretty happy.
Problems I have had with my Paradise hives:
Bees getting crushed between the underside of frame lugs and the plastic, almost flat rails. Abelo rails have a deeper space to prevent that from happening.
Paradise have no thought of a crown-board set up. I had to make my own from Correx. I find them essential for stopping the bees building comb onto the roof. Colonies grow very fast in poly hives and mayhem ensued last season within the first week of putting bees in them!
The Abelo crown-board is substantial, but I noticed a lack of space, if a queen-excluder is below the crown-board. I found some crushed bees today. Maybe this design does not require a Q E until I add honey supers? Then I could add the QE.....the supers, then the crown-board? Maybe I'm over thinking this!
The sheer thickness of the Paradise box-bases makes it easy to crush bees, despite trying to persuade them not to be around the edges! The rebates on the Abelo boxes do help prevent them doing that, I think.
On the painting front, Abelo's have less 'hard to get to' areas and seem easier to paint.
Surely, you can still customise your hive by painting over the base colours? I am finishing these hives with camouflage spray paint, bought on Amazon.

 

[Monbees]

Well that’s up to you.
I started just like everybody else with bottom space but decided pretty quickly that having space at the top I crushed fewer bees. My QXs are framed and wired so don’t need support and my crown boards have a bee space rim one side. Flip them over and there is lots of space for fondant or pollen sub without having to use an eke.

Have you made these QXs yourself or are they off the shelf?

 

[lindsay s]

Swn58 I assume you’re using the the new Abelo Q E that’s made for this hive. I have noticed the under side of the crownboard has a wide plastic frame that’s a couple of mm thicker than poly part. I don’t know if this will make a difference to the room the bees have. My bees aren’t ready for a super just yet because everything is running late here, so I won’t be using a Q E until then. I don’t know why you need a Q E directly below the crownboard. If I find more problems I will post about them on the forum. As far as customising the hive paint I think I’ll stick with what I have, but I’m really impressed by what you’ve done

 

[Erichalfbee]

Have you made these QXs yourself or are they off the shelf?

They are off the shelf. I think bee space rim on one side is pretty standard
https://www.thorne.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&filter_name=queen excluder&product_id=6752

 

[Boston Bees]

The Abelo crown-board is substantial, but I noticed a lack of space, if a queen-excluder is below the crown-board. I found some crushed bees today. Maybe this design does not require a Q E until I add honey supers?

Why would any design require a queen excluder below a crownboard?

 

[Swn58]

Why would any design require a queen excluder below a crownboard?

I began using my Paradise hives without a crown-board and they built comb into the roof very quickly. Even with supers added it tended to happen. I made specific c-b's for them to prevent the mayhem and stress it caused to both me and the bees!
I just assume that the same thing would happen, if I did not use a c-b on the abello. As for queen excluders, I prefer to know that the queen is in the brood box and not hanging around any roof space there is if I have no supers on.

 

[Boston Bees]

I began using my Paradise hives without a crown-board and they built comb into the roof very quickly. Even with supers added it tended to happen. I made specific c-b's for them to prevent the mayhem and stress it caused to both me and the bees!
I just assume that the same thing would happen, if I did not use a c-b on the abello. As for queen excluders, I prefer to know that the queen is in the brood box and not hanging around any roof space there is if I have no supers on.

I wasn't talking about not using a CB, which is certainly necessary

I am still confused by your Abelo CB crushing bees if a QX is used, given that Abelo hives are bottom bee space anyway.

What kind of QX are you using? Does it bow upwards in the middle somehow?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

As for queen excluders, I prefer to know that the queen is in the brood box and not hanging around any roof space there is if I have no supers on.

How would they get into the roofspace?
Unless you've forgotten to close off the feeder holes in the crownboard