Pains poly - size of super runners please

[Alabamaeee]

I've settled on buying 14x12 poly hives from the P Bee Farm people.

What I can't work out is what size castellated runners to buy for the supers

They have 9, 10, and 11 frame versions. I'll probably be using Hoffman spaced SN1 frames with foundation, though open to advice as I haven't bought any yet.

Can anyone that has a Pains poly 14X12 hive advise what is the best size runners?

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

No different from any other national size hive, its up to the owner's preference. Think I'm on 9, but as the interior dimensions are the same as a standard national its up to you.

Little need for Hoffmans if you are running with castillated supers

 

[drex]

Hoffman frames are self spacing ( I think SN4) and do not need castellations.
SN1's will need some form of spacer ( such as plastic ends or castellations)
As MA says it is up to you.

I run 10 frame castellations in my supers. The fewer the frames the deeper the bees draw out combs, so harder work for them, but then the frame can hold more honey. Simple.

 

[Alabamaeee]

Thanks MA,

I was confused with the super frames, I have existing SN1 frames that aren't hoffman spacing so will probably buy more of the same.

The confusion about spacing arises as I seem to remember someone at my training class last year saying that some beekeepers start with 11 frames of foundation, then when drawn use 9 frames in the super.

I assume it makes for wider combs which is easier to decap but again it's dangerous to assume

EDIT - Just read Drex post which arrived as I was posting this. Think I'll go for 10 frame spacing then.

 

[itma]

Two things -
- while the bees will usually draw out the foundation better on closer spacing (more frames to the box - probably warmer so easier wax making), but you have less extraction work per full super with wider spacing (less per box), so I understand that some folks start close, then once started, change to a wider spacing. Others use a compromise and stick with it.
- its no great shakes to change the castellations to a set with different spacing, and they are very cheap. Additional spare supers aren't terribly expensive either.

 

[YorkshireBees]

...
The confusion about spacing arises as I seem to remember someone at my training class last year saying that some beekeepers start with 11 frames of foundation, then when drawn use 9 frames in the super.

I assume it makes for wider combs which is easier to decap but again it's dangerous to assume

...

Yes a lot of people start with 11 frames of foundation and then change the spacing to 10 or 9 once the combs are drawn out. Generally either by using plastic spaces or, in the really experienced beeks case, by sight.
The other way, which I use but requires more kit, is to have supers with different castellations in. Start with foundation on 11 and then move to 10 or 9 depending on the depth of comb drawn out.
Or I guess it's just as easy to start with sn1 frames using plastic end spaces (11 frames of foundation) and then add the castellations, of your choice, after the comb is drawn.

 

[itma]

...
The other way, which I use but requires more kit, is to have supers with different castellations in. ...

Because the castellations just drop into slots on the P's poly, changing them is no more difficult than taking all the frames out, quickly swapping the metal strips and putting them all back.
However, an apprentice trainee time-and-motion man would instantly spot that its quicker (half the handling) to just move the frames to another super with the different castellations already fitted.

Oh, and plain rails fit into that same slot too, so changing castellations to rails or back again doesn't involve a hammer either ...

 

[Swarm]

Because the castellations just drop into slots on the P's poly, changing them is no more difficult than taking all the frames out, quickly swapping the metal strips and putting them all back.
However, an apprentice trainee time-and-motion man would instantly spot that its quicker (half the handling) to just move the frames to another super with the different castellations already fitted.

Oh, and plain rails fit into that same slot too, so changing castellations to rails or back again doesn't involve a hammer either ...

Spot on!
They come supplied with frame runners (and these are a little difficult to get back out due to their shape) I'd advise using the super with runners until comb is drawn and then shift the lot into another super fitted with 10 slots. The super with runners can be used to draw out new foundation and by the end of the season you should have enough so the runners can then be replaced with castellations. Subsequent foundation can be slipped between frames of drawn comb.

 

[region2]

Just bought a new Paynes poly hive (floor, 9" brood box, 2 x supers and a roof) in a recent auction. I know to paint it with Sandtex Smooth and a friendly fellow bidder suggested using a wooden crown board under the roof to stop it getting stuck down. Any other tips'n'tricks before I fill it with bees?

R2

 

[Finman]

.
If the box is for 10 frames, use in brood 10 frames.

In super give 10 foundations. When combs are ready and you have extracted the honey,
then use 9 frames.

-2 frame system in super is not possible.

.
You need not different runners. You look with eye the distances.

.

 

[Swarm]

As mentioned before, spacing by eye is fine but castellations keep the frames secure in transit.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

SN1's don't have the hoffman bit - that's the SN4's. I use 10 frames in a super. However with foundation that's a bit wide and you get unwanted comb in there sometimes. The usual technique is to start with 11 or 12 and when drawn, drop to 10 (or less if you want).

 

[BeeJayBee]

Just bought a new Paynes poly hive (floor, 9" brood box, 2 x supers and a roof) in a recent auction. I know to paint it with Sandtex Smooth and a friendly fellow bidder suggested using a wooden crown board under the roof to stop it getting stuck down. Any other tips'n'tricks before I fill it with bees?

R2

I think most people using poly hives use an acrylic crown board, and polystyrene or correx insulation above it. Our crown boards are 6mm acrylic, with a circular central feeder hole, plus a scrap of acrylic to cover it when not in use.

 

[Alabamaeee]

I went for a complete kit as the runners are not expensive.

I now have the ability to do 9, 10, or 11

Good tip on the acrylic crown board, will get that organised. Not sure how my old feeders will work as they are Ashworth types. if all else fails I may be able to add the feeder and then a timber roof until feeding is completed.

 

[itma]

The important thing about the crownboard is that it should have no holes! As with P's poly nuc, you have to ensure they can't stick the lid on with prop.
I'm actually a bit of an enthusiast for the see-through crownboard.

P's feeder is slightly strange, being lidless - and relying on the roof as its lid and bee-cap.
It looks to me as though it is an invitation to propolise. (Or is there a g2?)

It might be best to stick an empty poly super and then lid above your wooden feeder if you think the poly roof doesn't sit nicely directly on top of it.

 

[BeeJayBee]

I think most people using poly hives use an acrylic crown board, and polystyrene or [strike]correx[/strike] insulation above it.

My mistake, should be kingspan or any brand of thermal block insulation

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

I think most people using poly hives use an acrylic crown board, and polystyrene or correx insulation above it. Our crown boards are 6mm acrylic, with a circular central feeder hole, plus a scrap of acrylic to cover it when not in use.

If the poly is worth its salt (and all the major manufacturers are) you shouldn't need any top insulation. A simple thin piece of clear plastic will suffice as a crownboard to stop the roof getting bunged down. If unsure of getting your own, the normal poly suppliers sell them - £3 on the site I'm looking at.

 

[BeeJayBee]

If the poly is worth its salt (and all the major manufacturers are) you shouldn't need any top insulation. A simple thin piece of clear plastic will suffice as a crownboard to stop the roof getting bunged down. If unsure of getting your own, the normal poly suppliers sell them - £3 on the site I'm looking at.

No, they shouldn't need any extra insulation.

Our Swienty poly boxes have metal roofs, lined with a slab of thick polystyrene. I think the Southdown ones are the same make, but have a polystyrene roof with no outer cover.