Oxalic, when and how?

[Hawklord]

When is the best time to treat with the oxalic? Is it best done at a certain temp/weather condition or on a specific date? The first year I trickled the oxalic the temps were below freezing and I seemed to have lost a lot of bees in the spring. The second year I tried the vaporizer but it didn't seem effective as I had quite a heavy infestation early the following year. The last 2 years I've trickled the oxalic in late December but the temps were quite mild with bees being active on the frame tops. In these years I didn't manage to get the oxalic down between the frames so I just sprayed those on the frame tops with 50ml. This year I've made a board that is basically 2 crown boards joined together with a gap between so that only 1 seam of bees will be visible at any one time.

 

[VEG]

You seem to be over complicating it. Just dribble the oxalic between the top bars where the bees are, it will work its way down and get passed around. Use a syringe and it will drip down easily no matter how many bees there are.

 

[For want of a better word]

The one year I trickled oxallic acid over my bees... as I was not sure if they had been treated by previous beekeeper.... 3 out of 3 were deadouts!

I NOW ONLY VAPORISE IF I THINK THE COLONY MAY NEED IT........

My advice ... correct or not , for the novice would be to seek better advice before treating, especially opening hives up to pour on acid in midwinter!



This is my annual pre Christmas rant about bad beekeeping practices... now lets all go and stick matchsticks under the crown boards to get some good cold draught blowing through the colonies... or is it hives?


AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

 

[itma]

The Canterbury Association is trying to organise local mentor group 'safaris' so that beginners' colonies can be treated under some supervision, and the newbees should also get to see (and maybe heft) more than just their own hives as they are treated.
Seems sensible to me. (If the weather plays ball )

 

[VEG]

Plenty of uu tuube videos showing how its done.

 

[Finman]

The Canterbury Association is trying to organise local mentor group 'safaris' so that beginners' colonies can be treated under some supervision, and the newbees should also get to see (and maybe heft) more than just their own hives as they are treated.
Seems sensible to me. (If the weather plays ball )

That is good idea. Folks are relly frightened when starting to trickle.
Mask, gloves, family far away, dying bees, against law, whaat ever guys have invented to make that 30 second the most difficult in the world.

Bees need not to be in cluster. Cluster meant that bees normally have winter cluster when out temps are near zero. When you have done it, the cluster expands during next 1/2 hours.

 

[Hawklord]

The one year I trickled oxallic acid over my bees... as I was not sure if they had been treated by previous beekeeper.... 3 out of 3 were deadouts!

I NOW ONLY VAPORISE IF I THINK THE COLONY MAY NEED IT........

My advice ... correct or not , for the novice would be to seek better advice before treating, especially opening hives up to pour on acid in midwinter!



This is my annual pre Christmas rant about bad beekeeping practices... now lets all go and stick matchsticks under the crown boards to get some good cold draught blowing through the colonies... or is it hives?


AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

Pay attention to my post, it states the vaporizer was a waste of time. I don't know why, perhaps the oxalic vapour is heavier than air and should be put in above the colony.

 

[Hivemaker.]

I don't know why, perhaps the oxalic vapour is heavier than air and should be put in above the colony.

May of been too cold or they had brood, or both.
I also believe pressurized vaporization is more effective than passive.

 

[For want of a better word]

Pay attention to my post, it states the vaporizer was a waste of time. I don't know why, perhaps the oxalic vapour is heavier than air and should be put in above the colony.

Never have a problem with using the Varox vaporiser if instructions are followed to the letter... even to the extent that vaporisation is effective by placing the unit below an open mesh floor.... the vaporised oxallic sublimates perfectly throughout the hive and colony, occasionally producing a surprising varroa drop.
More often than not from a caught swarm/ bait hive colony... possibly the bees I have bred from have a level of resistance!
I would advocate checking for some varroa drop before use of any treatment... but I would strongly advise some sort of training before using any method!

 

[Goran]

When is the best time to treat with the oxalic? Is it best done at a certain temp/weather condition or on a specific date? The first year I trickled the oxalic the temps were below freezing and I seemed to have lost a lot of bees in the spring. The second year I tried the vaporizer but it didn't seem effective as I had quite a heavy infestation early the following year. The last 2 years I've trickled the oxalic in late December but the temps were quite mild with bees being active on the frame tops. In these years I didn't manage to get the oxalic down between the frames so I just sprayed those on the frame tops with 50ml. This year I've made a board that is basically 2 crown boards joined together with a gap between so that only 1 seam of bees will be visible at any one time.

Here we use oxalic acid mainly by trickling. Temperatures from 2 till 8 celsius. Preferred high humidity - more efficient. Broodless above all( whenever is that at Your place).
I don't connect the trickling for some date in calender, cause if is broodless period there will be no increasing of varroa, damage is done and week here or there doesn't play much. So mainly watching above mentioned conditions. Also here in mid January colonies start with brood, so it must be done before it ( we all treat with oxalic before Christmas, majority in November the rest in December).
Forgot, of course with syringe ( automatic faster), seams of bees ( not the frames - pointless), 5ml per seam ( usually if shorter seam I don't pour full dose), if some drops more I don't bother - had no problems.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Temperatures from 2 till 8 celsius.

Goran; why do you have an upper temperature limit?

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Interesting paper on chronic effects of OA. Only a couple of years old. I was googling around ("oxalic acid metabolism in honeybees") to find out what actually happens to the acid and how it leaves the hive.

http://www.nand.be/ambrosius/nieuws/oxaalzuurtest.pdf

<ADD> Wot Goran said (about broodlessness) http://www.apidologie.org/articles/apido/abs/2001/04/gregorc/gregorc.html </ADD>

 

[Hivemaker.]

Interesting paper on chronic effects of OA.

That, along with a few other similar papers, has been posted here a few times, note it is about the trickle method, not sublimation.

 

[Cazza]

Goran; why do you have an upper temperature limit?

In the style of O90O, what happens when temperatures rise above 8? That may answer your q, TTLTB.
Cazza

 

[Finman]

In the style of O90O, what happens when temperatures rise above 8? That may answer your q, TTLTB.
Cazza

Nothing happens. You may use oxalic dripling in summer to clean mites from swarms. It works better in high temperatures, says Nanetti.

Temps just tend to be lown during winter...in some countries and in others not...

.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

OK Cazza, I'll restate. Goran: Why do you want bees in cluster when you trickle. I thought I remembered someone posting here that unclustered is better, and see Finman above.

 

[Finman]

OK Cazza, I'll restate. Goran: Why do you want bees in cluster when you trickle. .

That goes too far after using 10 years oxaclic acid.

When bees are in winter rest, they form a tight cluster. It is a good sign that they have stopped brooding, lowered the hive temp and carried out the rest of brood. If they are not, what can you do. In southern countries brood brake is not sure but England is not southern country compared to Turkey, Spain or Italy.

My hives make the first cluster near an entrance. They are not nicely between combs like in books. Mostly they form a heap against front wall and I can see bees from lower entrance and from upper entrance. at same time

Trickling is not rocket science. It is too simple to **** sapiens. Get a life.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

It's not rocket science, but to return to the OP and that second link I posted, it is a waste of time if done at the wrong time so it needs some thought.

 

[Finman]

so it needs some thought.

Who needs?
This thing has invented every year about twenty times. Again and again. Twice a month, about.

Trickling has been used about 10 years, Is is only medication which can be used in the middle of winter.

My bee cluster are tight like twist. No other mitter killer can go into that cluster.
But of course bee do well if you make formic acid or thymol treatment in proper time.

Timing is allways main point in mite treatment.

You can loose your hives even if you treat them twice a year ....if you do the treatments too late and mite has done its job.
.

 

[Arfermo]

That, along with a few other similar papers, has been posted here a few times, note it is about the trickle method, not sublimation.

Hi Hivemaker.
Question please - do you think sublimation might be a gentler method of application of OA? I sublimate only because I got the Varrox S/H for less than 50%of new from someone who had hardly used it and because I don't have a huge number of colonies in out apiaries. My belief is that it is gentler and the INRA, DIB and Springer-Verlag, France, 2011 paper seems to confirm this to the case as there cannot be significant OA encrustation on the carcase of the bees in the colony. Do you agree and are you aware of any similar research papers on sublimation please as I can’t find any?
The most ridiculous scaremongering claims are made about the risks of sublimation and, in fact, the Chairman of my BKA last year had the nerve to say that there had even been mortality cases from sublimation. This year the risk element claimed by him was that somebody in Germany had been careless enough to breathe in the fumes. More fool him/them for being careless I reckon. Even so the scaremongering continues ad infinitum, mostly because they do not understand how to use the gadget safely - or maybe envy. There are videos of plumbing type lash-ups with a blowlamp that really are decidedly risky from what I have seen and are to be avoided imho.