Open mated queen genetics

[viridens]

Have I got this right?
A virgin queen may mate with 20 (some say up to 40) drones, all these drones could be from different hives and so have different parents and different genes. So the eggs our open mated lays are fertilised at random from a store of their mixed sperm, and so brood on each frame (or in each cell) will have random genes from this mixture and so are likely to have different characteristics, a mixture of 'good' and 'bad'.
So a queen that lays chalkbrood or consistently lays the brood to give a 'hive from hell' must be carry a dominant 'nasty' gene herself? Or are many innocent queens being squished without good cause?
Discuss!

 

[Beefriendly]

If 1 out of twenty drones passes on "aggressive " behaviour you will notice it.... but not notice the docile behaviour of the other 19/20 bees that are not attacking you.

 

[eltalia]

I'd reckpn the most accurate succinct content in answering is to offer
drones carry their mother's alles(word?) and so it follows that where
those traits you mention are localised the traits compound in
regeneration.
What is known as regressive breeding and why queens of known
(controlled?) lines are brought in, enmasse in requeening an apiary
wholly.

Our policy was to buy in 50% of the apiary every other season
keeping rotation and brood production always on that same path.
We only ever purchased from the same supplier, changing once in
the decade as our first choice passed away.

It will be interesting to read UK b'keeps take on drone distribution
- AI (II) suppliers aside.

Bill

 

[SDM]

So a queen that lays chalkbrood or consistently lays the brood to give a 'hive from hell' must be carry a dominant 'nasty' gene herself? Or are many innocent queens being squished without good cause?
Discuss!

What's does it matter whether the "fault" lies with the queen or the drones she mated with?

 

[B+.]

If 1 out of twenty drones passes on "aggressive " behaviour you will notice it.... but not notice the docile behaviour of the other 19/20 bees that are not attacking you.

The age of workers can also be a factor. House bees won't attack you even if they may eventually become aggressive foragers. It's important to consider their average behaviour over a number of visits

 

[For want of a better word]

Have I got this right?
A virgin queen may mate with 20 (some say up to 40) drones, all these drones could be from different hives and so have different parents and different genes. So the eggs our open mated lays are fertilised at random from a store of their mixed sperm, and so brood on each frame (or in each cell) will have random genes from this mixture and so are likely to have different characteristics, a mixture of 'good' and 'bad'.
So a queen that lays chalkbrood or consistently lays the brood to give a 'hive from hell' must be carry a dominant 'nasty' gene herself? Or are many innocent queens being squished without good cause?
Discuss!

There is some thought that the bees will select queens ( at the egg larval stage) that have "rare alleles", and so the whole mating situation will eventually even its self out across the colonies.

The problem is that beekeepers constantly interfere with this natural process by introducing imported* queens and culling those which probably have the traits that the beekeeper is also selecting for.

*By imported I refer to the annual/ bi annual requeening with non local queens of differing genetics to the localised population.

Chons da
Stands back an waits for a hail of abuse from the North Eastern margins of the beekeepering forumites!

 

[Finman]

So a queen that lays chalkbrood or consistently lays the brood to give a 'hive from hell' must be carry a dominant 'nasty' gene herself? Or are many innocent queens being squished without good cause?
Discuss!

At least you may choose the queen. When you buy mated queen, then you choice the drones too.

I just bought 10 new queens. They are good. I bought last summer from same place, and no hive of those has swarmed.
I cannot rear from those last summer queens , because all good queens are sisters. And vain to mate them with swarming stocks.
So I bought mated queens 30€/piece.
It is not much .

 

[Finman]

Ö

There is some thought that the bees will select queens ( at the egg larval stage) that have "rare alleles", and so the whole mating situation will eventually even its self out across the !

I bet that they shoose such alleles which keep a beekeeper aiway from their hive.
.
I do not believe on those Royal alleles not a bit. On another hand honey bee wants a wide range genes to workers, but queens must be super narrow blue blood family. That maths does not work.
The story does not stand any hybrid genetics evaluation

 

[For want of a better word]

Ö

I bet that they shoose such alleles which keep a beekeeper aiway from their hive.
.
I do not believe on those Royal alleles not a bit. On another hand honey bee wants a wide range genes to workers, but queens must be super narrow blue blood family. That maths does not work.
The story does not stand any hybrid genetics evaluation

My favorite little snow faerie...
You breed and buy in your queens to get you mountains of honey to sell??

Bees ( as far as I know) do not need mountains of honey to survive the winter or times of derth.

I do not have any problem with this... but the beekeeper does manage his stock in a way that nature has not intended and selects for unnatural traits.

Question was about genetics and if when the queen mates how many "fathers" the resultant colony population of workers will have.

Chons da

 

[Finman]

My favorite little snow faerie...
You breed and buy in your queens to get you mountains of honey to sell??

Bees ( as far as I know) do not need mountains of honey to survive the winter or times of derth.

I do not have any problem with this... but the beekeeper does manage his stock in a way that nature has not intended and selects for unnatural traits.

Question was about genetics and if when the queen mates how many "fathers" the resultant colony population of workers will have.

Chons da

I do not understant your explanation.

How many fathers the hive has. It has been researched tens of times.

I discussed about genetics when playcards are not proper, what do you do then?

The British cryes for British queen rearing, but when you buy queens, it is a syn. How heck the rearing can stay alive?

 

[Finman]

I do not have any problem with this... but the beekeeper does manage his stock in a way that nature has not intended and selects for unnatural ...
Chons da

When did you invented that! ... nature has not Intented. How do you know what nature intends?

 

[For want of a better word]

When did you invented that! ... nature has not Intented. How do you know what nature intends?

Darwin wrote a little book about what nature does... survival of the fittest?

 

[Finman]

Darwin wrote a little book about what nature does... survival of the fittest?

I was 5 years in university to learn biology and genetics and geography.


And what you need to know about mongrel genetics. Nothing.

Bees mate on SKY and you are not needed there. The results you see, when you nurse mongrels.

What is bee breeding... not at least mongrel genetics.

 

[Finman]

Darwin wrote a little book about what nature does... survival of the fittest?

There are essential difference with fairylogy and with biology. You use to mix it EVERY day. And now se wait for Darwin dusted fairy factology.

 

[Finman]

Darwin wrote a little book about what nature does... survival of the fittest?

The honeybee is a domestic animal. It has different survival rules.

 

[B+.]

What's does it matter whether the "fault" lies with the queen or the drones she mated with?

It matters.
A well bred queen mated to Tom-Dick-Harry drones may produce workers you don't particularly want but her drones will still be well bred.
If you are trying to raise the "tone" of your neighbourhood bees, you may be prepared to put up with so-so colonies temporarily.

 

[For want of a better word]

I was 5 years in university to learn biology and genetics and geography.


And what you need to know about mongrel genetics. Nothing.

Bees mate on SKY and you are not needed there. The results you see, when you nurse mongrels.

What is bee breeding... not at least mongrel genetics.

You are SO clever... but beware!

Nursie: Another good idea. You’re so clever today, you’d better make sure your foot doesn’t fall off.
Queenie: Is that what happens when you have good ideas? Your foot falls off.
Nursie: Oh yes! My brother had this brilliant idea of cutting his toenails with a scythe, and his foot fell off!

Blackadder

 

[eltalia]

It matters.
A well bred queen mated to Tom-Dick-Harry drones may produce workers you don't particularly want but her drones will still be well bred.
If you are trying to raise the "tone" of your neighbourhood bees, you may be prepared to put up with so-so colonies temporarily.

Exactly the Plan here (apiary) as whilst the locals are pretty calm
they appear at first pass to be prone to abscond, not swarm but
vacate totally. As we've only had three years to assess and test
a few options it is early days. We'll be requeening again in
September, leaving our initial Plan to use a few imports to then
reproduce from those.

Bill

 

[Repwoc]

My favorite little snow faerie...

You breed and buy in your queens to get you mountains of honey to sell??



Bees ( as far as I know) do not need mountains of honey to survive the winter or times of derth.



I do not have any problem with this... but the beekeeper does manage his stock in a way that nature has not intended and selects for unnatural traits.



Question was about genetics and if when the queen mates how many "fathers" the resultant colony population of workers will have.



Chons da

Is that true of your Localy Adapted Cornish Black Bees? Make just enough stores to survive the winter, I mean, rather than produce a crop for the farmer? I can well believe it, as natural selection will always select for the highest number of surviving colonies every year. That means issueing as many swarms of survivable size as possible, while the parent colony still remains viable over winter. High honey producing colonies (those that produce an excess) can only be the result of selective breeding over a long period by humans, including your so-called 'localy adapted' 'Cornish' black bees, if they do indeed produce a crop.

The only way that bees will become truly 'localy adapted' is if beekeeping is banned entirely and the bees are left entirely to live as they wish. Obviously, it's not going to happen.

Sent from my Moto E (4) using Tapatalk

 

[Finman]

I can well believe it, as natural selection will always select for the highest number of surviving colonies every year.

That is true. Difficult to select from dead colonies.