One brood box or two?

[taff..]

Feed yes.

Brood box on top.

And No Finman I am not having an argument on the matter. Location does make a difference.

PH

would you expand and explain the reasoning behind that for the rest of us noobs please

 

[Finman]

would you expand and explain the reasoning behind that for the rest of us noobs please

Why more room under brood box?


It is cold now and weather may change to what ever. Look for rainy days and nights. Our late May is just like you have now in England.

Brood temperature is even 36C. At night bees make tight cluster over brood and keep them warm by shivering wing muscles. If you put 100% more space over the brood, the heat escapes to empty box. They must work harder.

Even if I put ready combs over the brood box, it may take one week before bees occupye combs.

I have looked inside the brood area and I saw that bees destroy qute much ready brood in lower box when I add room up. In summer case is different.

Nothing bad in enlargening down. Natural bees start brooding from top and descend downwards and the reason is heat.

When I have used electrict heating in 2-box hives, queen come easily to lay down near heat quell.

Sometimes weathres are good and bees englarge brooding. Sometimes it comes cold spell, part of flying bees die and colony has troubles to keep brood warm. So in that case if you have gived a new box, it makes hard to keep all brood alive. Chalk brood begins often after cold week.

 

[raysa]

On the few occasions I have run a double brood hive I have used a queen excluder between the two so that there's only one chamber to check for queen cells or find the queen. As frames of brood became full and capped I'd move them into the other chamber to let them develop and hatch, and replace them with ones that have just hatched, giving the queen empty comb for more laying.

But I've only done it a few times when I've inherited BS standard hives. I much prefer the larger 14x12 brood box and run these single - never needed to double these up.

Ray

 

[Finman]

On the few occasions I have run a double brood hive I have used a queen excluder between the two

That makes not much sence. The excluder duty is to keep brood and honey apart.

But in swarm preventing there is methods that all brood and food frames are moved over the excluder and the queen has whole empty box to lay.

***********

Swarm cell checking is quite easy. If you see queen cells in upper brood box, make a flying false swarm. No need to look in lower box.

 

[raysa]

The excluder duty is to keep brood and honey apart.

The excluder duty is to exclude the queen from where you don't want her to go. In this case I wanted her excluded from the second brood chamber as well as the honey supers. For the reason explained, it made sense.

Ray

 

[Jenxy]

Actually Raysa... that makes quite good sense to me. As a beginner, the last thing I would want to do is lose her Madge whilst checking. Knowing which brood box she is in would make life a lot simpler. Maybe it's not "the done thing" but it would take some of the worry out of it.

 

[MJBee]

That system is ok in principle but could fall down when drones are produced. They are essential for the balance of the colony and this method traps them in the hive unless you confine the queen to the TOP brood box.
Regards Mike

 

[Hivemaker.]

http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/demaree.html

 

[Finman]

.
The queen is very easy to find. Yu are kidding if you use that for the excluder?
And you need not allways to find the queen.

What I need to find in June is queen cells.

 

[Finman]

Actually Raysa... that makes quite good sense to me. As a beginner, the last thing I would want to do is lose her Madge whilst checking. Knowing which brood box she is in would make life a lot simpler. Maybe it's not "the done thing" but it would take some of the worry out of it.

That is very new to me, but makes no sence. But do what you like

When beginners play with excluder they does not get colony big enough for winter.

.

 

[Poly Hive]

Not really a fair comment Finman re the wintering strength.

In the UK it is not unknown for double BB systems to use two excluders to keep the Queen in a known position.

It does though have the issue of trapping drones inadvertintly.

If however checks are being done weekly it is not great hardship for them to wait a few days for the chance of flight.

PH

 

[mikebucks]

Hi, I am relativeley new to beekeeping as well but my association ran a course using Ted Hoopers book and It was a bit dry. We now use "Bees at the bottom of the garden " which those currently on the course quite like and find more accessible

 

[Finman]

In the UK it is not unknown for double BB systems to use two excluders to keep the Queen in a known position.

Odd habits . I have found that you keep it even over winter - more unfair comments. Why queen must be in known position?

I do not use excluder at all and I find my queens if I need.

 

[Bcrazy]

Talking about double brood boxes, I have just put a brood chamber on my Langs as it was bubbling over with bees. The QE has gone on top of the top chamber.

There seems to be a concern regarding where the queen will be when carryout an inspection.

The way I have been taught is remove the roof and place to one side. Remove the crown board (nationals) Poly Langs do not have a crown board, and place next to the roof. Remove all supers and place on the crown board.

We are now left with two brood chambers with a QE on top.

Remove the top brood chamber and place on the up turned roof, that way the queen can not escape from the bottom of the box, or escape from the top.
Now inspect the lower chamber and if the queen is not found then you know she should be in the other box.
Replace the top box onto the lower box and remove the QE and inspect the top box.

Its as simple as that.

Now some are going to say 'What if the queen goes down into the lower chamber'?

My answer to that is 'Try the method and tell me if the queen goes down into the lower chamber' because all the times I have carried out this manipulation the queen has never moved down into the lower chamber.

Regards;

 

[Finman]

Now inspect the lower chamber and if the queen is not found then you know she should be in the other box.

Half of my hives have now 2 champers and even all snow has not melted.

When I inspect my hives I look for certain things depending on season. Very seldom I look in lower chamber.
It has most of old foragers and they don't want to see me.

*When I see eggs and open larvae, it tells that queen is there. I need not see it.
* I look, does queen lay well and is the brood area healthy. Does hive has food enough.

* In swarming time I must look into lower champer if the hive has queen cells.
If queen cells are not in upper champer, they are not either in lowest champer.

* In lower box there are usually pollen stores and brood in 5 frames.

* If the hive has only two box in spring it is valuable to look what is in the lowest box.

**************

two brood box just means that bees may situate quite freely pollen, brood and some honey.