Off to the Heather

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Picked up my 6 and friend's 5 hives from Blaenavon on 14th September - and delighted to say, most very heavy hives among them (especially my 6 commercials). Averaged 20lb extracted per hive in the super (lovely bubbly heather honey), and by hefting, lots more in the broodboxes. Am tempted to take a couple of frames honey from the bboxes and replace with foundation, and feed as per ITLD's recomendation; a warmer weekend would be helpful if I'm to do this before its too late.

So the effort was worthwhile. The bees should be in good nick for overwintering and a strong spring start in time for the OSR and orchard fruit here in the Vale of Evesham. Learned a lot from the experience and had elements of "fun" without any real drama this time; I'd recommend to any beekeeper the experience of taking their bees on the pilgrimage to the heather moors. Definately going again next year!

Thanks for feedback on this thread; you know who you are! Off to Malvern show and the Worcs BKA honey show next weekend. Won't need to buy any heather honey this time!
 
contrary to the last post my move was definitely not worth the effort. Derbyshire ones came back significantly lighter and the welsh site produced a bit more but judging from the 10 i stripped this morning be lucky to get 2 or 3 pound average. so no where near covers the diesel, the time to select the best bunches, move around brood and the rent etc

ITLD im fascinated to know how you manage a average of over 40lbs. did you get anywhere near that this year?
 
ITLD im fascinated to know how you manage a average of over 40lbs. did you get anywhere near that this year?

Not within a country mile of it, current indication for 2012 heather is abut 15lb.

Our preparation and season long management for the heather would take a chapter of a book to write, perhaps even a whole book.

Step 1 however is to take all the old literature about how to do heather honey and set fire to it. Its is almost all about small crops of comb honey /squeezed honey to showbench standards rather than obtaining a larger crop of extracted honey.

Add in the 30 years it has taken to accumulate our stock of heather locations, every year dropping to serial duds and taking on new, at least the worst 3 or 4 are dropped.

Then there is the issue of bee power, maximum forager power for first to third weeks of August is essential.

There is so much detail............

and finally there is luck................without the weather you are stuffed.
 
still... 15lbs isnt too bad! Looking at your pictures though those monster trucks cant be cheap to run!

Set fire to the books and throw them on the heather then, i gather new shoots on the heather is better than the twiggy out crops near my bees!

Actually its not that bad, just it seemed a little less colourful on the moors this year for some reason.

Do you use pulled comb? took me a while carefully selecting drawn comb which doesnt look like its added to the yeild at all. it should make a difference to yeild you would have though....

looking at your pics also i notice a lot of boxes with no supers on (14/26)... im guessing some colonies must make 80lbs plus to make up for this?

I think a book would be very interesting, at least the literature i can find doesnt give much information away and the internet doesn't seem to have much on the subject.
 
Into the lions den said:
.... would take a chapter of a book to write, perhaps even a whole book.


I'd buy that. Even help you edit it if you like!

G.

Sent from my BlackBerry 8520 using Tapatalk
 
still... 15lbs isnt too bad! Looking at your pictures though those monster trucks cant be cheap to run!

The trucks are actually the least of our concerns, they are agricultural vehicles doing agricultural work, which means so long as they are never used for other things they are classed as tractors for tax and insurance purposes, and the 15 miles from home rule is not applicable of you are actually engaged in the husbandry of your own livestock. Our biggest single cost is wages, by a mile, then bee feeding. 15lbs does not even come close to paying the bills. We need 28lbs for break even (that is heather only......we run on the basis we need that, and any blossom honey is a bonus. We regard blossom honey as a bonus, and to some extent a by product, as the bees going to OSR etc is part of the build up strategy for later season.)

Set fire to the books and throw them on the heather then, i gather new shoots on the heather is better than the twiggy out crops near my bees!

Over the years we have seen that to be rather a myth. Some of our very best locations are in places where they can never burn and the heather can be up to waist high and ancient. I also have a really good record in forest sites. Not dark planted conifers, but open relict stretches of the old caledonian pine woods. These are never burned over, but tyou have a wide range of microclimates in these places that means they can work more days than they can on open moors. But..then again,,we have some great open moor places too.

Actually its not that bad, just it seemed a little less colourful on the moors this year for some reason.

The heather was beautiful here, but too late, and got frosted too.

Do you use pulled comb? took me a while carefully selecting drawn comb which doesnt look like its added to the yeild at all. it should make a difference to yeild you would have though....

Some time ago I quoted results from some research we did back in the 1980s on this subject, comparing yields from various scenarios. Drawn comb deeps were best by far. Worst was sections or starter strips. Bees made more if run on deep boxes than if given shallow boxes, again by a significant margin. More surprising was that Manley spaced frames in supers, above normally spaced brood nests, hurt yield. Keep the same spacing and alignment all the way up and you do best.

looking at your pics also i notice a lot of boxes with no supers on (14/26)... im guessing some colonies must make 80lbs plus to make up for this?

That will very much depend on whatever picture you look at. We move everything except our Canada boxes to the heather, even young splits whose only job is to be ready for winter. If the load had a considerable number of young colonies for next year then yes, you will see single box hives htere. Other loads have none, and may even be mainly two queen units ready for reuniting (mother and daughter above a flight board). Although the young colonies come off the moors slightly smaller than their 'left on the lowlands' cousins, they winter better. I suspect its the fact the old bees that would not overwinter anyway have worked themselves out and left the scene, only leaving the winter bees, and that there are actually more of those. 80lbs, well yes, even this year the very best individuals have done that, especally at some of our very high sites. Some of our best places long term have virtually nil. Have pictures (not on the computer so cannot attach) of hives as high as 7 and 8 deeps. People inadvertantly exaggerate the amount recoverable from a box of honey a lot of the time, but we do get individual colonies pushing 200lb net yield, but that is rare. Our average though is calculated on dividing the total by EVERY colony worked and moved to the heather. Any method for exclusion of the duds and dinks and babies increases the yields people claim, but its a vanity exercise to inflate yield. Does not give you any more honey and is not a true reflection of work done. When someone tells you their yield, and its better than yours, first hing to ask yourself is do they count it the ame way you do? the answer is often no, so the comparison is irrelevant.

I think a book would be very interesting, at least the literature i can find doesnt give much information away and the internet doesn't seem to have much on the subject.

Despite Gavins kind offer its book that will never be written. So much in bees is done on 'gut feel' and experience, that a book can never give you. Lots of bee books are ............... lets just say I very rarely buy them unless they cover some technical topic I reckon will aid myself or my key staff. I buy books for Jolanta as she is working towards being in a position to take charge once I am not able to, but do direct her to the good bits.
 
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People inadvertantly exaggerate the amount recoverable from a box of honey a lot of the time, but we do get individual colonies pushing 200lb net yield, but that is rare. Our average though is calculated on dividing the total by EVERY colony worked and moved to the heather. Any method for exclusion of the duds and dinks and babies increases the yields people claim, but its a vanity exercise to inflate yield. Does not give you any more honey and is not a true reflection of work done. When someone tells you their yield, and its better than yours, first thing to ask yourself is do they count it the same way you do?

Very true. I saw the "BBKA Honey survey". The questions were: How many colonies do you have at 30 Sept 2012? How many lbs of honey did you get this year? (with a 'new' box to tick). Surely honey is produced by the colonies you start the season with. Why is the number you end with relevant? Tick to exclude 'new' beekeepers. Why exclude those ticks and not those relatively new and concentrating on expanding? Is a keen starter more or less likely to return the survey? Several factors that make me think results are going to be less useful than they could have been.
Despite Gavins kind offer its book that will never be written. So much in bees is done on 'gut feel' and experience, that a book can never give you. Lots of bee books are ............... lets just say I very rarely buy them unless they cover some technical topic I reckon will aid myself or my key staff.
I think you underestimate the interest there would be in seeing the complete picture from a 'modern' bee farmer. We have plenty of beginners 'how to do it' bee books; there's a place for setting out 'how I do it' from an operation far outside the experience of most of us. You might write it off as one for the armchair bee farmers, but what you could write is not necessarily what you would buy.
 
Do you use pulled comb? took me a while carefully selecting drawn comb which doesnt look like its added to the yeild at all. it should make a difference to yeild you would have though....

Some time ago I quoted results from some research we did back in the 1980s on this subject, comparing yields from various scenarios. Drawn comb deeps were best by far. Worst was sections or starter strips. Bees made more if run on deep boxes than if given shallow boxes, again by a significant margin. More surprising was that Manley spaced frames in supers, above normally spaced brood nests, hurt yield. Keep the same spacing and alignment all the way up and you do best.

Wondering if that research was generally applicable, or specific to heather operation?
Surprising indeed!
Should we be running deeps as supers?
 
Any sign of the ling in flower on the South Wales hills yet (JB...)?
 
Any pointers as to when the heather will flower this year? Will it be as advanced as everything else or will being in place by late July suffice?
 
Any pointers as to when the heather will flower this year? Will it be as advanced as everything else or will being in place by late July suffice?

The bell heather is in full flower down this way now, ling could be in the next couple of weeks.
 
Is ling not good?
 
I have 4 hives in the van at the moment will be heading to the heather tomorrow morning and combining to two. This is my first trip to the heather so fingers crossed. The bell is in full flower here but the ling is not yet. There is alot of bramble and rosebay willow herb near my heather site which is also in flower. We will see what they bring in.
 
We have been seeing heather in some of the combs we have been extracting for the last couple of weeks now !!
 
Can anybody update on whether ling is starting to flower early this year (I've an interest in the South Wales area)? Andy
 

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