odd situation with queen cells today

[Cuckmere couple]

colony requeening and left it with 4-5 q cells to 'sort it out themselves' or leave them to it.....

and i had a frenzy of bees out yesterday (thought they were swarming) but then thought it could have been a mating ceremony

today checked in the colony (21 days since adding the eggs)

saw the queen but no eggs

saw 3 intact q cells which i thought would have been killed so went to squash them

1 was dead
2 were still capped but alive and when i opened each of the two...a queen ran out and made a run for it....

i thought the first q out was supposed to kill them? anyway...i managed to catch one of the virgins and then dropped in into undergrowth as i went for cage

odd...so released two queens from cells and not sure if one stayed in hive with newly emerged queen

leave them to it?

do they kill each other after emerging?

 

[eltalia]

Welllll just see my post #13 -- https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=44396&page=2
Where you are not concerned on a swarm issuing just let them be, they'll sort it.
IF numbers won't support loss in swarming at this time then consider that earlier advice
stands - despite what newbies who pretend to know cackle away with in selfagrandising
hyperbole.

Bill

 

[Finman]

.
Hive is going to swarm. If they are not, first virgin kills other queen cells.

 

[Cuckmere couple]

ok thanks both

i think they only have the one virgin i saw in the hive now anyway as i was destroying the other capped q cells believing they were dead as it was 20/21 days after the eggs were added so odd to see them still capped and alive

i believed they had been killed in cells

the two that emerged when i destroyed the cells were both attacked by other bees and i think both ended up out of the hive...one because i picked it up and then dropped it

novice!

 

[Cuckmere couple]

.
Hive is going to swarm. If they are not, first virgin kills other queen cells.

thanks Finman

the odd thing is i had removed the old queen some weeks ago and left flying bees and some eggs from another colony....this virgin has been out for about a week and not laying yet. It only has 3-4 seams of bees so surprised if it was preparing to swarm....?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

colony requeening and left it with 4-5 q cells to 'sort it out themselves' or leave them to it.....

If there were more than one QC, I would never assume supersedure - people really need to ignore the 'advice' of those who think the position of the QC on the frame means anything

i thought the first q out was supposed to kill them?

another from the book of myths - it occasionally happens but usually the workers 'farm' the QC's - guarding them from the resident queen or another emerged virgin and stopping the new queens emerging until they decide - usually to send out a cast swarm

.so released two queens from cells and not sure if one stayed in hive with newly emerged queen

leave them to it?

do they kill each other after emerging?

The usual thing is, if you find you have missed QC's and the bees are keeping them from emerging, release them all and usually (but not always) they will fight and sort themselves out.

take heed - anyone who believes that putting a queen excluder across the hive entrance can be construed as sensible, responsible beekeeping is not really a beekeeper just a fool cutting and pasting random thoughts into a post.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

.this virgin has been out for about a week and not laying yet. It only has 3-4 seams of bees so surprised if it was preparing to swarm....?

Doubtful she would be - although occasionally they get their act together, mate and start laying in super quick time - it usually takes a good few weeks

It only has 3-4 seams of bees so surprised if it was preparing to swarm....?

Some determined colonies will swarm themselves to a standstill - the urge to found new colonies is so strong.

 

[Cuckmere couple]

ok, thanks for that

this colony had a 2 year old queen who's laying had slowed

so, i removed her into a nuc and left a few feet away so all flyers went back to original hive

it had 2-3 frames of brood and after 4-5 days i destroyed q cells and added a frame of fresh eggs from a colony who's queen i liked

on that frame they drew the 4-5 q cells im talking about

1 emerged last week...the other 3 cells i went to destroy yesterday and one was rotten, the other two emerged and legged it......

i think only 1 virgin now remains....so should be ok?

 

[Finman]

.
Normal system is, the emerged queen bite a hole to the side of the queen cell.

It is swarming system, if one virgin is out and other virgins are alive inside the queen cells.

If your small hive did something else, I do not know what then.
.

 

[beeno]

Hi Cuckmere couple,
1. Well, no guarantees in this game strong possibility of two virgins in there. The original one and the one you hope is not in there any longer. You can possibly listen for one queen tooting (piping) and the other one answering, but not much space to differentiate in a nuc. I did it in a national and managed to haul one out.
2. What you saw yesterday was a swarm or swarm attempt. There are no scientific evidence for congregational mating flights as far as I am aware. Cast swarms in the olden days used to be callled mating swarms as the queen was unmated, but it was still a swarm. Thereof the confusion.
3. I am totally against a nuc raising queen cells as they are not going to be fed well enough as nurse bees are forced to become foragers early and there will not be enough nurse bees to feed the queen cells properly.
Hope you are lucky, but it is all in the lap of the goods!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

3. I am totally against a nuc raising queen cells as they are not going to be fed well enough

Rubbish - luckily, your opinion doesn't count for much

 

[Cuckmere couple]

thanks beeno

with this colony i wasn't trying to raise a q in a nuc....i took the old queen out into a nuc and left the hive on original site to keep foragers....they raised the q cells from eggs i added from another colony

i did hear some piping actually and wondered what it was...i thought it was our chickens making a weird noise and my wife was sure it was the bees...maybe thats what we heard....

 

[mjt68]

Rubbish - luckily, your opinion doesn't count for much

Even on 2-3 frames of bees? Not winding you up, trying to learn what you would do?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Even on 2-3 frames of bees? Not winding you up, trying to learn what you would do?

That sounds a little weak - a few frames of emerging bees, a frame with eggs and a good shake of nurse bees is a different matter, however, in this case it was a full hive of bees

 

[mjt68]

That sounds a little weak - a few frames of emerging bees, a frame with eggs and a good shake of nurse bees is a different matter, however, in this case it was a full hive of bees

Thanks!

 

[Cuckmere couple]

on this matter...

i am making two splits into nucs from demaree colony but have opted for two nucs of 4 frames bia rather than 4 nucs of two frames bia but the q cells were already capped in the demaree colony which is double brood with 16 frames of bia and very busy

should be ok imho.....

the hive this original post was about was a national bb with a queen 2-3 years old and slowing in laying so we removed her to a nuc leaving this hive on originial site

however...it has been broodless for a while because we wanted to be sure q cells raised came from eggs we donated from our preferred queen

 

[Cuckmere couple]

someone not on this site has suggested

drones are quite late in our area due to poor weather
= queens taking time to mate
= workers holding on to capped queens in case as queen not mated

and also that the 22 ish days since eggs may have meant a cross between worker and queen anyway and could have resulted in drone layer etc

interesting

 

[eltalia]

[deleted]

 

[Swarm]

someone not on this site has suggested

drones are quite late in our area due to poor weather
= queens taking time to mate
= workers holding on to capped queens in case as queen not mated

and also that the 22 ish days since eggs may have meant a cross between worker and queen anyway and could have resulted in drone layer etc

interesting

Sounds like guess work on their part.

 

[Finman]

Rubbish - luckily, your opinion doesn't count for much

I am with Beeno.