Nucs building up in the spring.

[Curly green finger's]

Hi and good afternoon.
I wanted to talk about overwintered nucs and how In comparison to a already established colony how a nuc can build up so much quicker, this season I saw some nucs go from 6 frames to a double brood with 3/4 supers from April 21st - June 21st so in just 8 weeks or if you like two months, it makes me wonder if a overwintered nuc is the best colony for a new beekeeper to start with.
I am supplying some overwintered nucs to new beekeepers but have my doubts as to how they will fair with them.
Im also mentoring some of these folk so hopefully that will help.
What are your thoughts.
Thanks in advance
Mark

 

[Erichalfbee]

It's the age of the queen that is important
If you want to do an experiment try swapping a few queens

 

[Curly green finger's]

It's the age of the queen that is important

Yes I know that younger queen's will always build up quicker, even my June reared were in single brood for the heather... Perhaps new beeks should start with older queens/colonys that was my point?

 

[Erichalfbee]

If you mean selling a full size colony with a queen going into her third year to new beeks, Then no absolutely not.
If you are mentoring them then surely there is no problem?

 

[rolande]

I have a bit of a mental block regards the name, but there was a Midlands based bee farmer (jbm spent a few weeks with him some years ago) who used to post a lot on here and he did once write about sending nucs out with old queens because he felt the buyer was getting a better deal..... But, he was talking about healthy old queens not warn out things.

At the end of the day CGF, you are supplying old queen's if they're in an overwintered nuc. I mean, how old do you want them to be?!

 

[Curly green finger's]

If you mean selling a full size colony with a queen going into her third year to new beeks, Then no absolutely not.
If you are mentoring them then surely there is no problem?

Where did you get three year olds from?
Overwintered queen's are barely 12 months old, second year not quite 2 years... We hear alot on here of newbs loosing there colonys to swarming after having overwintered nucs because they were caught out with them building up,
Second year queen's would be slower?

 

[rolande]

Where did you get three year olds from?
Overwintered queen's are barely 12 months old, second year not quite 2 years... We hear alot on here of newbs loosing there colonys to swarming after having overwintered nucs because they were caught out with them building up,
Second year queen's would be slower?

Isn't the swarming ratio meant to increase with age?

 

[mbc]

I think nucs are expected to be sold with a new queen.
Tempting to sell off old queens which you might be culling or losing in a swarm later on anyway but I'd imagine it would have a very negative effect on repeat sales.

 

[Sanntos]

I think nucs are expected to be sold with a new queen...

They can also be sold as overwintered with a queen from last year

 

[Erichalfbee]

Where did you get three year olds from?
Overwintered queen's are barely 12 months old, second year not quite 2 years... We hear alot on here of newbs loosing there colonys to swarming after having overwintered nucs because they were caught out with them building up,
Second year queen's would be slower?

A 2021 established colony has a queen overwintered from the year before so she was born in 2020. in 2022 she is in her third year. I never said she was three years old.
An overwintered nuc has a 2021 queen and she is going into her second year

 

[Erichalfbee]

Isn't the swarming ratio meant to increase with age?

Yes in my experience. That's why commercial units often requeen before the main flow

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

there was a Midlands based bee farmer (jbm spent a few weeks with him some years ago) who used to post a lot on here

Chris Broad

 

[Finman]

Speed on colony build up depends on the number of occupied frames in the hive, in the nuc or what ever.

If the box is full of bees 10 frames, the colony can rear 8 frames brood in 4 weeks.

If the colony is 3 frames, the colony can rear 1 frames in 4 weeks.

Second step is, that one box hive can rear 15 frames of brood.

3 frame nuc can rear 2-3 frames on brood. In August the colony may fill 2 boxes of bees.


Then in spring you may steal bees from stong hives, but it may make weaker those strong hives, if ypu do not knie, what you are doing.

 

[Finman]

Yes in my experience. That's why commercial units often requeen before the main flow

It depends, if you have there mating weathers to mate 300 queens.

 

[rolande]

It depends, if you have there mating weathers to mate 300 queens.

If you don't, someone else will.

 

[Finman]

If you don't, someone else will.

It is not that easy.

Like in the Middle Europe last year professional queen sellers could not send mated queens like they promised.

 

[rolande]

It is not that easy.

Like in the Middle Europe last year professional queen sellers could not send mated queens like they promised.

As a general rule it is true. Never been a time when queen matings were a failure in every part of the UK and in every country that can export to the UK at the same time. As shown by good matings in the UK while central Europe had difficulty.

I see your post has been slightly corrected, that was a wise move.

 

[Finman]

. Never been a time when queen matings were a failure in every part of the UK

I do not know your weathers. But it does not help, if somewhere weathers are good and somewhere are not. Life does not go that way that mating is
" average".

If the virgin is 3 weeks old, you must abandon the queen, if you are a professional seller.

You may allways use swarming queens in hives and you change the queen later to better quality.

 

[rolande]

I do not know your weathers. But it does not help, if somewhere weathers are good and somewhere are not. Life does not go that way that mating is
" average".

If the virgin is 3 weeks old, you must abandon the queen, if you are a professional seller.

You may allways use swarming queens in hives and you change the queen later to better quality.

We're not actually a million miles apart on this, surprisingly.

 

[Finman]

We're not actually a million miles apart on this, surprisingly.

From what surprise?