Not using queen excluders

[Finman]

drstitson,

appropriately spaced super frames are unattractive to queens re laying.

Good point there. Say, 9 frames per super in a National frames will either be too wide apart for brooding or, if drawn adequately for a couple of house bees to traverse, the depth of the cells would be too long for her to lay in, given alternative space below.

Regards, RAB

sory..that is not so at all. The queen rise to super if the brood area is too small. 100% no!

 

[Finman]

Wouldn't that require ex's on at least a couple of colonies to get super frames deep drawn?

Not necessarily. If the frames are spaced out early(11>10>9 or even>8) at drawing time, they may become too deep, or stay too wide. May need some extra attention but may be possible. I have some deep drawn frames from last season anyway, but they do need to be drawn flat or she may lay in the shallower parts of uneven frames.


Wouldn't the Queen merely stick the egg on cell wall ?

Given the choice of space dowstairs and up, she is likely to go up, but if that space up has 'too deep' cells (and bees prefer a fairly small range of cell-height:cell-width ratio), she would preferentially stay down.

Certainly worth looking at and investigating further.
, RAB

i have so much experience that it is nonsence. When workers make the cells ready to lay and clean them, they shorten the cells proper to lay.

.

 

[drstitson]

Finman

rab isn't suggesting that well spaced frames will prevent a queen laying in supers if pushed BUT simply that in a well managed hive, with perfect conditions/space for the queen, she will favour the brood frames in this situation.

 

[Finman]

rab isn't suggesting that well spaced frames will prevent a queen laying in supers if pushed BUT simply that in a well managed hive, with perfect conditions/space for the queen, she will favour the brood frames in this situation.

i use minus one frame in supers but it does not hinder laying or swarming.
Minus 2 is unpractical.

with 45 y experience, no!

I use 3 langstroth broods. That hinders super laying. My queen are good layers because i select them so. I use only 1 y old queens.

 

[drstitson]

precisely....

well bred queens kept in suitable broodspace (3 langstroth bodies!!!!) will have no need to venture north so to speak

 

[victor meldrew]

IWF (Germany) uses brood boxes as honey supers and uses frames having had brood in , interspersed with frames of foundation as part of their 'Rotational beekeeping'

John Wilkinson

 

[Finman]

.
3 brood bodies means that one body is full of pollen. Bees not not pollen into super. They store pollen under brood and on sides. But they do not like to store it in white new combs.

If you have an upper entrance, bees store pollen to one nearest comb to entrance in the middle of brood ball. Ok, nurser bees can use it directly.

In late summer bees rear winter bees with those pollen stores.

 

[Finman]

IWF (Germany) uses brood boxes as honey supers and uses frames having had brood in , interspersed with frames of foundation as part of their 'Rotational beekeeping'

John Wilkinson

so do I.

In late summer I Arrange frames so that brood down and honey combs up. So i am able to take off all honey from the hive. Before winter feeding i take off the last honey combs. They are in brood combs.
During August bees use to eate open honey away and i may exract capped honey in autumn.