No beginner course available - now what?

[einsteinagogo]

Thanks for all the advice guys.

I'm not planning on getting any bees now, I know it will be hard for me over the winter. I just want to get to grips with all the theory and have all my equipment, make a somewhat informed decision about the type of beehive I will get and learn to use things like the smoker over the winter so that I am all
ready to get the bees come spring. If I wait for the next course which starts in Feb and finishes in March, before learning or getting anything I might end up missing next year too. I need to prepare now because I really want my own bees come spring.

What is the latest month in the year I can get bees and have some hope of getting even a tiny amount of honey?

So I guess I will most definitely be joining the BKA if I can get sued over my bees stinging anyone. I guess just about everyone in the UK joins them or are there keepers that take the risk and don't? Also how in the world will anyone be able to prove that it was my bee that stung them if they did decide to take matters further?

Thanks for the book recommendations. Every person is different and whilst I probably could quite comfortably read the Hooper book and take a lot of benefit from it, and most likely will be buying it at some point, I'm the sort of person that probably would prefer a more simpler book, ideally with pictures,
to start off with (light reading after a long day). As I get to grips with the subject I don't mind reading the detailed hard to read stuff.

I will see if I can find a course further afield. If it's not too far I will go for it.

So here's my plan then:

• Join BKA
• Get a good couple of books for winter reading
• browse these forums
• get my equipment ASAP (in Jan) in the new year when I might be able to pick it up cheaper
• Get onto the Feb course If I have still not been on one by then.
• Get My bees in March.
• Sit down to some toast with my own home made honey in august or...keep dreaming.

Does that sound about right for a newbie?

Thor*s sale is in October 2014! (it will be cheaper than in Jan!!!) - if that's not too early to purchase....you can always chat with Beeks!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

What is the latest month in the year I can get bees and have some hope of getting even a tiny amount of honey?

Depends on the season, and how strong a colony/queen you get.
I introduced a queen to a nuc with two frames of brood on the eighth of June and another home grown queen mated on the 22nd - one's got four supers on the other three at the moment, but that is exceptional thanks to the season we've had. You could get a decent overwintered nuc in May and be well away for honey if all goes well.

So here's my plan then:

• Join BKA
• Get a good couple of books for winter reading
• browse these forums
• get my equipment ASAP (in Jan) in the new year when I might be able to pick it up cheaper
• Get onto the Feb course If I have still not been on one by then.
• Get My bees in March.
• Sit down to some toast with my own home made honey in august or...keep dreaming.

Does that sound about right for a newbie?

Sounds good - the online sales start October to January and you should get all the kit at a fair price. Change the bee procurement to April/May for a more realistic target.
Good luck to you - but remember you will get some duff information - even on a quality forum like this one

 

[B Special]

Ryder. Take your time. Read read read. This time last year I decided to get onto a local course, do the evening classes, do the week end practicals, do the the exams before deciding to be put on a waiting list for a colony of my own. There was a time during the evenings classes I thought this bee keeping lark was not for me but I got over it from chatting to others on the course over a pint or two and from the folk who ran the course. I now have my bee's and my interest and passion for them has doubled. The social side has been awesome. The banter, the craic, assisting others and helping my local club in such a short period of time has been priceless and great fun. Just take your time mate and enjoy the journey. Chill out. It's all great fun.

 

[REDWOOD]

ditto, I did it with Hooper as well, it was my first book, I read from cover to cover....

+1

 

[B Special]

..............and enjoy your honey in August 2015

 

[pargyle]

So here's my plan then:

• Join BKA
  Go to all the meetings and listen to lots of conflicting advice and become confused.
• Get a good couple of books for winter reading
  Become even more confused.
• browse these forums
  Listen to lots of other people who are also confused and enjoy lots of conflicting advice and opinions.
• get my equipment ASAP (in Jan) in the new year when I might be able to pick it up cheaper
  Better in the Autumn sales ... check out the major beekeeping supplies catalogues and websites - become even more confused about what equipment you need, collapse in horror at the cost of it.
• Get onto the Feb course If I have still not been on one by then.
  Get even more conflicting advice and enjoy the company of more confused people hoping to keep bees.
• Get My bees in March.
  
  Now the fun starts:
  
  PANIC
  CALM DOWN
  WATCH BEES
  PANIC
  CALM DOWN
  WATCH BEES
  PANIC
  CALM DOWN
  WATCH BEES
  
  Realise that they don't do what the books, courses and conflicting advice say they will do.
  
  
• Sit down to some toast with my own home made honey in august or...keep dreaming.
  
  If you are lucky but, in your first year, it could cost you more per jar than having it delivered by hand, in a taxi, from Fortnum and Masons.

Does that sound about right for a newbie?

Hmmmm ... we've all been there and there's a lot of us who stick at it and find it a compulsive hobby... but the drop out rate is high. So, my advice would be to spend as little as possible until you are absolutely sure - if you can find an experienced beekeeper NOW and get alongside them to get hands on with the bees it will tell you fairly rapidly if this is what you really want to do. The cost of the hobby is high, particularly when you are starting out, if you are handy and can make some of your own equipment you will be able to save a fair bit of money but don't bank on making any money from beekeeping - you will never have enough equipment and if you think you can just have a couple of hives - once you get sucked in there is an unavoidable slippery slope to more hives.

ME ? ... I love it ... but out of the course I did a few years back there are only three of us out of 13 that still have bees. That tells you something; but don't be discouraged .... that first jar of honey will be the very best you have ever tasted ... mind you, for what it will cost you, it needs to be !

 

[BeeJayBee]

I'm not planning on getting any bees now, I know it will be hard for me over the winter. I just want to get to grips with all the theory and have all my equipment, make a somewhat informed decision about the type of beehive I will get and learn to use things like the smoker over the winter so that I am all ready to get the bees come spring. If I wait for the next course which starts in Feb and finishes in March, before learning or getting anything I might end up missing next year too. I need to prepare now because I really want my own bees come spring.

You've only got a couple of weeks before Thornes biggest, and probably cheapest, sale of the year and if you're close enough to one of their branches to be able to collect your order (it's collect only) it's worth buying from them at this time. If so, you might have to make your mind up re hive type fairly quickly, but that would be a bad idea if you've never seen a beehive!

There are other sales later in the year. Maisemore has a good sale which starts, I think, October or November. There's postage to pay if you can't collect from near Gloucester - they might be the closest to you from Birmingham. It might even be worth your while giving them a call, so you can go and look round their place, that's if you can't find a local beekeeper who'll let you take a look at their hives to help you choose the type that suits you best.

Paynes (Sussex) has a sale usually starting, I think, New Year's Day.

If you're serious about getting bees early next year, orders are usually first come, first served. I've seen a huge difference in delivery times this year, those who ordered in January and early February had their bees weeks before those who ordered late Feb and onward.

Oh, and find out what your local association offers. Ask if they have an apiary that's used throughout the season. The best ones do.

.. I can't agree that [Hooper is ] a readable book. ... I don't know any people who picked up Hooper and read it from start to finish

Guilty as charged! I bought it and read it cover to cover quite quickly. It's got a lot in it and is worth reading, but as a quick, modern, reference book it's pretty dire mainly because so few texts are written that way any more - they're better illustrated, with text accompanying the images rather than the other way round. Also, the indexing in some recent editions is poor, so what you look for isn't on the page you turn to.

Long before I had bees I borrowed the "Idiot's Guide" from the library, it took an evening to read. Very light on detail, I don't know if later editions are better. It's US-based, I think.

I like the Haynes Manual though, it's quick to refer to, easy for new beekeepers to understand and is UK-based. It's the one I'd recommend for a Spring-starter, because it'll get them through the first season really well. Then, maybe, the more meaty Hooper later in the year, to read during the first winter off-peak season.

Good luck to you - but remember you will get some duff information - even on a quality forum like this one

No different, sometimes, than asking two beekeepers! You get at least three options, unless they're stuck in their (old) ways and think they know it all!

 

[youngyoungs]

Agree with everything that's been said.

Use the winter to read, prepare, buy what you will need irrespective of whether you have your own bees or are helping with someone else's. A bee suit, hive tool, smoker, you may already have boots and gloves.

Go and work with an experienced beek from now. Go to lectures, honey shows, BBKA meetings and listen, and surf. Next Feb will come all too quickly.

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Thanks for all the advice guys.

I'm not planning on getting any bees now, I know it will be hard for me over the winter. I just want to get to grips with all the theory and have all my equipment, make a somewhat informed decision about the type of beehive I will get and learn to use things like the smoker over the winter so that I am all
ready to get the bees come spring. If I wait for the next course which starts in Feb and finishes in March, before learning or getting anything I might end up missing next year too. I need to prepare now because I really want my own bees come spring.

What is the latest month in the year I can get bees and have some hope of getting even a tiny amount of honey?

So I guess I will most definitely be joining the BKA if I can get sued over my bees stinging anyone. I guess just about everyone in the UK joins them or are there keepers that take the risk and don't? Also how in the world will anyone be able to prove that it was my bee that stung them if they did decide to take matters further?

Thanks for the book recommendations. Every person is different and whilst I probably could quite comfortably read the Hooper book and take a lot of benefit from it, and most likely will be buying it at some point, I'm the sort of person that probably would prefer a more simpler book, ideally with pictures,
to start off with (light reading after a long day). As I get to grips with the subject I don't mind reading the detailed hard to read stuff.

I will see if I can find a course further afield. If it's not too far I will go for it.

So here's my plan then:

• Join BKA
• Get a good couple of books for winter reading
• browse these forums
• get my equipment ASAP (in Jan) in the new year when I might be able to pick it up cheaper
• Get onto the Feb course If I have still not been on one by then.
• Get My bees in March.
• Sit down to some toast with my own home made honey in august or...keep dreaming.

Does that sound about right for a newbie?

Sounds like a reasonable plan to me, with provisos that you should delay buying anything until you know for certain you are going ahead, and wisdom would suggest delaying that decision until at least having handling some live bees.

Would suggest not panic buying now just because Thornes have a sale, you may end up with wood when you want poly, or standard brood when you want 14x12, or any number of permutations - it is way too early for you to decide on how you want to go. Also if/when you finally get bees, they may already come with some kit (although you will always need more).

there you go, some more conflicting advise

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

.....and have a read of this thread:

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=14770

 

[MuswellMetro]

I don't remember £hornes having an online sale in October last year, there was the sale at their Lincolnshire base and at that you have to pick up from Rand as they don't post

 

[Arfermo]

One of the most important things to get to grips with in beekeeping, apart from basic handling etc, is bee diseases. Plenty of them about and some are notifiable ie lethal to your own bees and potentially to hives within a wide radius (read about EFB and AFB - foulbrood). However, the most common bee problem is the varroa mite - a vector for almost all viral problems – and which practically no bee colony, feral or in your own apiary in all of Europe and US, can deal with without considerable help. The DEFRA website at https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/index.cfm?pageid=167 lists various publications in pdf format that you really should trawl through, “Managing Varroa” being the most important imho. In fact, that link has everything you need without buying any books just yet. Attending talks by prominent beekeepers at your local BKA can often yield free hard copies of some of the Beebase stuff. And when you get some bees, be sure to register with Beebase too.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I don't remember £hornes having an online sale in October last year, there was the sale at their Lincolnshire base and at that you have to pick up from Rand as they don't post

They definitely have an on line sale after the on site only sales - I did think October/November at first then I remember ordering a load of second quality frames on the last few days of the sale last year and, due to a problem with paypal Gill had to phone me to sort out payment - unfortunately i was at sea at the time so SWMBO took the call , luckily it was my birthday that week so I got a present for a change! so that would have made the end of the sale end of Jan/beginning of Feb. Could have been the online sales ran from October to February until stocks were exhausted.

 

[-Ryder]

wow, loads of info to take in and some very useful links given. Did not realise there were so many difference of opinions on just about everything in the beek world it seems.

I'm glad I've been told a lot of people drop out of beekeeping early on, makes me all the more adamant to be one of the ones to succeed. I do understand the difficulties presented (especially in relation to diseases) in keeping animals as I have dealt with water buffaloes and goats abroad and currently keep chickens in my garden. Bee Disease is something I will definitely be looking into in some detail as I lost some of my favourite chickens to disease in my early days of chicken keeping (and most vets are pretty useless when it comes to chickens). I had to really understand the chicken diseases and cures and prevention myself before I was finally able to bring the health of my flock under control. I was on the verge of giving up as I was losing one chicken after another in such a short space of time, so yes I will be taking an especially keen interest in Bee Diseases early on.

Thanks for letting me know about the special offers too, but I think I will delay buying anything atleast until the beginning of the new year by which time I should have done a fair bit of reading.

I've had a look at that link with the recommended bee books thread. Based on that and what people have said in this thread as well as looking inside the books on amazon and amazon reviews I have decided to go with the haynes beekeeping manual with a view to getting the hooper one just as soon as I
am done with the haynes one.

Thanks for clearing the confusion in my mind about a lot of things everyone.

 

[VixyB]

I got my bees in mid June and they haven't made enough honey for me to take this year. I had a swarm after a month and the new queen isn't laying as well as she could do, so they are a bit weak.

Make sure you source your bees from somewhere reputable! I suspect the guy I bought mine from knew that they weren't great. Easy money for him and loads of worry for me!!

 

[Moggett]

What is the latest month in the year I can get bees and have some hope of getting even a tiny amount of honey?

Thinking of honey/selling before getting your first bees is probably the wrong mindset because it's not guaranteed. Swarming, bad husbandry, bad weather and lack of forage can kibosh all hope. Honey should be seen as a bonus, because if you don't get a crop for the first one or two years giving up becomes even more likely.

Also bees can kill chickens. I had one killed - the bees being the main suspect - a number of years back and there have been other reports of this behaviour online. Also be careful spraying scaley leg treatment on the chickens near bees - my bees were sent a bit loopy by it!

Keeping bees in a standard garden is probably not a good idea. I did so for a number of years but each generation had a different temperament. Some years they were ok, others they weren't. Ask an experienced beekeeper to visit and ask his/her opinion. It may be that you will need an out apiary - probably best to have one in reserve if you do keep them in the garden anyway in case they need moving pronto.

Get some experience with big colonies before starting too, preferably tetchy ones to judge whether you can handle them. A beekeeper needs to be able to manage aggressive colonies - going into them to find the queen normally - and in my view if you're not up to it you shouldn't keep bees. Otherwise you'll be starting a thread asking for the best way to administer petrol.....

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Otherwise you'll be starting a thread asking for the best way to administer petrol.....

Nooooo! don't even go there!

 

[einsteinagogo]

What is the latest month in the year I can get bees and have some hope of getting even a tiny amount of honey?

Thinking of honey/selling before getting your first bees is probably the wrong mindset because it's not guaranteed. Swarming, bad husbandry, bad weather and lack of forage can kibosh all hope. Honey should be seen as a bonus, because if you don't get a crop for the first one or two years giving up becomes even more likely.

Also bees can kill chickens. I had one killed - the bees being the main suspect - a number of years back and there have been other reports of this behaviour online. Also be careful spraying scaley leg treatment on the chickens near bees - my bees were sent a bit loopy by it!

Keeping bees in a standard garden is probably not a good idea. I did so for a number of years but each generation had a different temperament. Some years they were ok, others they weren't. Ask an experienced beekeeper to visit and ask his/her opinion. It may be that you will need an out apiary - probably best to have one in reserve if you do keep them in the garden anyway in case they need moving pronto.

Get some experience with big colonies before starting too, preferably tetchy ones to judge whether you can handle them. A beekeeper needs to be able to manage aggressive colonies - going into them to find the queen normally - and in my view if you're not up to it you shouldn't keep bees. Otherwise you'll be starting a thread asking for the best way to administer petrol.....

Totally agree with this, I've got two Apiary, Apiary 1 in my garden, and Apiary 2, at the allotments (it's not on a plot, it's on a bank at the base of allotments!). (and the increase in chickens taking over the Allotments, now four plots of chickens!)

I've not had any issues with any of these Apiaries to date, but I hive been mindful, of doing deep inspections when public is around, and this has caused delays to the beekeeeping calendar, not opening hives when public/neighbours are around, also mindful of children etc

So this was decided this year, to move ALL to an out Apiary out of the way in private, in a secure location, that only me and the landowner, know there are bees there!

Also, bees on display, people start talking of where the hives are located....e.g. the local courier spotted the hives in the front garden trying to find a place to open, and hide a parcel!

So, off to Out Apiary.....doing it this weekend, and I also have two "spare" back locations....

 

[-Ryder]

What is the latest month in the year I can get bees and have some hope of getting even a tiny amount of honey?

Thinking of honey/selling before getting your first bees is probably the wrong mindset because it's not guaranteed. Swarming, bad husbandry, bad weather and lack of forage can kibosh all hope. Honey should be seen as a bonus, because if you don't get a crop for the first one or two years giving up becomes even more likely.

Also bees can kill chickens. I had one killed - the bees being the main suspect - a number of years back and there have been other reports of this behaviour online. Also be careful spraying scaley leg treatment on the chickens near bees - my bees were sent a bit loopy by it!

Keeping bees in a standard garden is probably not a good idea. I did so for a number of years but each generation had a different temperament. Some years they were ok, others they weren't. Ask an experienced beekeeper to visit and ask his/her opinion. It may be that you will need an out apiary - probably best to have one in reserve if you do keep them in the garden anyway in case they need moving pronto.

Get some experience with big colonies before starting too, preferably tetchy ones to judge whether you can handle them. A beekeeper needs to be able to manage aggressive colonies - going into them to find the queen normally - and in my view if you're not up to it you shouldn't keep bees. Otherwise you'll be starting a thread asking for the best way to administer petrol.....

I wasn't really thinking of keeping the hives in my garden as the chickens have taken over most of it. I was thinking of putting them in my parents garden as the drive behind their garage is completely secluded, overgrown with weeds as no one really goes down there and it is shared with only 2 other neighbours who never use it and hardly ever go out their either (they are generally nice neighbours but unfortunately they are the fussy about everything type, one being a dear old lady in her 90's who I would not want to upset in any way)

The good news is I've discovered the Birmingham & District Beekeepers Association Apiary site which is only about 3 minutes drive from my house. To think I've been past it so many times and did not even know it existed! So can I keep my hives there or are these apiary sites only for the people running them to keep their hives on? Apparently they had their last meeting of the year there this afternoon They will be having classroom based meetings elsewhere starting from next month.

 

[Moggett]

?....So can I keep my hives there or are these apiary sites only for the people running them to keep their hives on? Apparently they had their last meeting of the year there this afternoon They will be having classroom based meetings elsewhere starting from next month.

You'll have to speak to them. Normally association sites are for training or breeding apiaries. Best ring their secretary and get some general advice.