No beginner course available - now what?

[drex]

I would just add that it might be an idea to join your local assoc now. Our assoc continues to have meetings over the winter for theory. Talk to people about what type of hives they use. If you buy hives compatible with theirs they can always help you if you get stuck for something. They may invite you to come and help handle their bees before they shut down for winter. - that way you will have an idea of how you react mentally and physically to standing in a cloud of bees and being stung.
My mate went on the course, kept his bees for a year, but never settled and gave up. I got a bargain, but he lost out, when I bought his stuff off him! He was as keen as you when he started. I use T's online January sale for my equipment.
If you do the course ( both theory and practical) in our assoc you are given a colony. Free. No guarantee as to when as it depends on season, but it is always good and strong.
Patience is an essential quality for beekeeping, and I am not always good at it.
Enjoy.

 

[Arfermo]

Ryder,

Just another thought.

My BKA have what they call "HOT" (Hands On Training) hives in the club apiary that are owned by the new members - 6 to 8 of them at present - which are inspected at weekly apiary meets in season with an approved trainer in support. Recent one included a thorough disease recognition look as well. Maybe worth asking the BKA you join if they do same for their learners? A HOT is just a floor, BB, CB and roof until they feel proficient enough on the basics and can remove it to a new home?

 

[peteinwilts]

I got my bees in mid June and they haven't made enough honey for me to take this year. I had a swarm after a month and the new queen isn't laying as well as she could do, so they are a bit weak.

Make sure you source your bees from somewhere reputable! I suspect the guy I bought mine from knew that they weren't great. Easy money for him and loads of worry for me!!

'reputable' normally means paying through the nose for bees that are often no different than you would find elsewhere... or imported.

Your first statement is common amongst new beekeepers... your second is very sweeping and quick to criticise the supplier. Why do you suspect the guy thought they were not great?

I have bees from multiple sources, and have gentle bees that do not produce a great deal, darker grumpy bees that produce a huge amount.

there are 'swarmy' bees, but these often are good layers. I use these colony's to produce workers to raise 'good' queens.

I have several sets of bees that were NUC's in June, and the majority have not produced honey due to the crap August, and several still do not have a super.

Your new bees probably came as a NUC. Moving from NUC to hive may produce a swarm. Generally, NUCs are sold filled to the brim, and moving into a new hive gives them little room for rapid expansion which is why it is good to feed to allow them to expand quicker than foraging. Even then, they may decide to swarm anyway.
I find moving a big NUC into a hive with empty frames, and are fed, also expand quicker, and less likely to swarm and expand quicker than a hive with frames of foundation under the same conditions.

QC's are almost always a precursor to a swarm. If swarmed after a month, there is a good chance you could have seen it coming.

if your hive is weak, you should have either moved it back to a NUC, or dummied down the hive. If your hive is weak, you should not have a super, and possibly thinking of feeding with thymolised syrup to prevent it spoiling in the warmer weather. (or if wasps are a problem, fondant)
A full hive and a super is a lot of space to heat, and a less than full colony would progress very slowly, and in this weather, may go backwards.

It is very easy to say it was the bees fault, or the bee suppliers fault, but a swarm after a month of being a NUC, and a new queen in July would not necessarily mean a strong colony now with honey, even if August was good. If your bees are being kept 'baggy', your queen will not be laying well.

A small colony in July 'may' give honey in late August\early September in good weather, but with crap weather, getting them into autumn in a fit state to survive winter should be your priority.

There are many ways of doing such things, and although a valuable tool, a book is often a single beekeepers view of doing things. It should be guide, not an instruction book.
Experience rules, and having a mentor with a good amount of experience counts for a lot. A 'good' mentor will help you select bees or teach you what to look for. If no mentors are available, that's what books might teach you, and what forums are for... to help.
If you suspect the bees were dodgy to start with, you would have had warning signs by looking at his parent colony's, or looking at the NUC itself and not buy them.

Books also often tell you what to do, not what to do if it gone wrong.

 

[Arfermo]

There are many ways of doing such things, and although a valuable tool, a book is often a single beekeepers view of doing things. It should be guide, not an instruction book.QUOTE]

Hence the adage "Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools".

 

[VixyB]

'reputable' normally means paying through the nose for bees that are often no different than you would find elsewhere... or imported.

Your first statement is common amongst new beekeepers... your second is very sweeping and quick to criticise the supplier. Why do you suspect the guy thought they were not great?

I have bees from multiple sources, and have gentle bees that do not produce a great deal, darker grumpy bees that produce a huge amount.

there are 'swarmy' bees, but these often are good layers. I use these colony's to produce workers to raise 'good' queens.

I have several sets of bees that were NUC's in June, and the majority have not produced honey due to the crap August, and several still do not have a super.

Your new bees probably came as a NUC. Moving from NUC to hive may produce a swarm. Generally, NUCs are sold filled to the brim, and moving into a new hive gives them little room for rapid expansion which is why it is good to feed to allow them to expand quicker than foraging. Even then, they may decide to swarm anyway.
I find moving a big NUC into a hive with empty frames, and are fed, also expand quicker, and less likely to swarm and expand quicker than a hive with frames of foundation under the same conditions.

QC's are almost always a precursor to a swarm. If swarmed after a month, there is a good chance you could have seen it coming.

if your hive is weak, you should have either moved it back to a NUC, or dummied down the hive. If your hive is weak, you should not have a super, and possibly thinking of feeding with thymolised syrup to prevent it spoiling in the warmer weather. (or if wasps are a problem, fondant)
A full hive and a super is a lot of space to heat, and a less than full colony would progress very slowly, and in this weather, may go backwards.

It is very easy to say it was the bees fault, or the bee suppliers fault, but a swarm after a month of being a NUC, and a new queen in July would not necessarily mean a strong colony now with honey, even if August was good. If your bees are being kept 'baggy', your queen will not be laying well.

A small colony in July 'may' give honey in late August\early September in good weather, but with crap weather, getting them into autumn in a fit state to survive winter should be your priority.

There are many ways of doing such things, and although a valuable tool, a book is often a single beekeepers view of doing things. It should be guide, not an instruction book.
Experience rules, and having a mentor with a good amount of experience counts for a lot. A 'good' mentor will help you select bees or teach you what to look for. If no mentors are available, that's what books might teach you, and what forums are for... to help.
If you suspect the bees were dodgy to start with, you would have had warning signs by looking at his parent colony's, or looking at the NUC itself and not buy them.

Books also often tell you what to do, not what to do if it gone wrong.

I was caught out when they swarmed - being inexperienced. My local association is not at all helpful so am going to join another neighbouring association that is a bit further away but more helpful.

I have been reading books, but they aren't always helpful as a newbie.

I did a 1 day 1:1 course and took the bees away that day. That was my mistake.

I was just trying to say, the more preparation you do before you get a colony of bees as a newbie, the better. I would do it differently if I had my time again. My priority is absolutely getting my colony up to strength for the winter and will be getting some advice next weekend on how I can best do that.

 

[peteinwilts]

I was caught out when they swarmed - being inexperienced. My local association is not at all helpful so am going to join another neighbouring association that is a bit further away but more helpful.

I have been reading books, but they aren't always helpful as a newbie.

I did a 1 day 1:1 course and took the bees away that day. That was my mistake.

I was just trying to say, the more preparation you do before you get a colony of bees as a newbie, the better. I would do it differently if I had my time again. My priority is absolutely getting my colony up to strength for the winter and will be getting some advice next weekend on how I can best do that.

I still often learn by hindsight, and still kick myself for not doing things better. I also see and learn new things every year.
it is very easy to caught in the excitement of things, but probably the most important skill to learn is patience.
I have addressed this by having a lot of hives, as there is always something to do..

Winter is like pushing a reset button on the hives. Next year, if you want to do it differently, you can.
if you struggle with your local associations, I would be very happy to pop down and give a few pointers. Alternatively, you would be very welcome if you would like to pop over to mine and see a lot of hives in different conditions. (Lots of experience in a short time!)

 

[VixyB]

I still often learn by hindsight, and still kick myself for not doing things better. I also see and learn new things every year.
it is very easy to caught in the excitement of things, but probably the most important skill to learn is patience.
I have addressed this by having a lot of hives, as there is always something to do..

Winter is like pushing a reset button on the hives. Next year, if you want to do it differently, you can.
if you struggle with your local associations, I would be very happy to pop down and give a few pointers. Alternatively, you would be very welcome if you would like to pop over to mine and see a lot of hives in different conditions. (Lots of experience in a short time!)

That would be fantastic! Thank you! Please can you send me a private message and perhaps we could arrange something. Seeing other hives would be really useful I am sure.

 

[Swarm]

Ryder,

Just another thought.

My BKA have what they call "HOT" (Hands On Training) hives in the club apiary that are owned by the new members - 6 to 8 of them at present - which are inspected at weekly apiary meets in season with an approved trainer in support. Recent one included a thorough disease recognition look as well. Maybe worth asking the BKA you join if they do same for their learners? A HOT is just a floor, BB, CB and roof until they feel proficient enough on the basics and can remove it to a new home?

Are you saying that these hives are used for the training of others? My association has a training apiary with hives that are used for this purpose. Maybe I've got it wrong but I wouldn't be comfortable with my bees being used in this way, it sounds quite a forfeit.

 

[alldigging]

Are you saying that these hives are used for the training of others? My association has a training apiary with hives that are used for this purpose. Maybe I've got it wrong but I wouldn't be comfortable with my bees being used in this way, it sounds quite a forfeit.

It sounded to me like they were bees belonging to the beginners but kept in a managed apiary until the beekeeps are confident in their handling and ability to manage them on their own.

 

[Swarm]

It sounded to me like they were bees belonging to the beginners but kept in a managed apiary until the beekeeps are confident in their handling and ability to manage them on their own.

Yes that's what I thought but being used as 'training hives'. Does that mean they are being opened by groups, with others going through them?