Newbees and slightly worried

[Geohorn]

We are new to beekeeping and started up in June this year. We have a National hive and have seen our colony expand quite rapidly over the summer and now they have slowed down, the Drones have all gone and recently they have stopped venturing out as its a bit too cold. We have fed them on sugar syrup from the end of September on and off and when the weather is too bad they have taken to that fine, but recently they have stopped so we put some fondant on top of the crown board. This didnt seem to attract them so we moved it to the queen excluder.We have been worried as we have seen quite a few dead bees inside the hive on the mesh bottom and on top of the excluder, but we checked this afternoon and they were all over the fondant and quite active. Have we done the right thing in feeding them and is it fondant they needed to liven them up a little?
I have read so much about getting bees through the winter and we are still a little apprehensive but willing to listen and learn to give them their best chance.

Thanks in advance
Geo and Eileen
Warwickshire

 

[VEG]

did you have the queen excluder directly under the crown board when they wouldnt take the fondant?

Can you give some more info on how your hive is set up.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

did you have the queen excluder directly under the crown board when they wouldnt take the fondant?

Can you give some more info on how your hive is set up.

a bit more information would help us a lot - bees will slow down this time of year and go into the winter cluster

 

[Lesley Hoppy]

Could do with a bit more info - but I was always told to remove the Q excluder because you don't ever want the Q to get separated from her surrounding cluster of workers ... I am also feeding fondant as a precaution - and will check it throughout the winter to see that it is never used up. Its been a funny old summer and food stores might be low.

 

[Geohorn]

We have the brood at the bottom with an alluminium excluder then a super and then the queen board on top of that. We started with the fondant over the oval hole in the board but not a sniff of being taken, so I put it directly on top of the excluder and they seem to be really interested in it now.

 

[VEG]

you really shouldnt have the queen excluder on at this time of year, as if it gets very cold the bees will move up into the super the queen will be left behind below the excluder. Is the super full of stores?

 

[itma]

We have the brood at the bottom with an alluminium excluder then a super and then the queen board on top of that. We started with the fondant over the oval hole in the board but not a sniff of being taken, so I put it directly on top of the excluder and they seem to be really interested in it now.

First thing, the queen excluder out. Its for keeping the bees nest and crop storage apart. Not what you should be doing over winter!

Second thing, that super. Have they stored anything in there? If not, take it away.

Third thing, feeding. This depends on how much is in the bees stores. You should aim for 20kg of stores. That's a well-filled national standard deep brood box. (Or a well-filled super and a half-full brood box ...)
If they have that much, no need to feed. Less than that and you probably will need to feed before the end of winter/start of spring foraging.
If feeding, fondant is appropriate, but there are preliminary questions, before going into details.

 

[Geohorn]

The super has three empty frames but no supplies, we havent heard about taking the excluder off, does the queen get fed by the workers?

 

[REDWOOD]

The super has three empty frames but no supplies, we havent heard about taking the excluder off, does the queen get fed by the workers?

the queen does get fed by the workers but what the concern is that the bees could cluster above the QE and where would the queen be then, probably dead from the lack of heat generated by the cluster.
Remove the super QE, if you need to feed fondant, plastic tub up turned over the feeder hole in crown board or if no holes in crown board then eke under the crown board and place fondant directly over frames

 

[VEG]

Take the super and queen excluder off put the fondant on top of the crown board holes and put it back together.
If the bees go above the excluder the queen will get left behind and can get cold/hungry. Its not the time of year to be messing the bees about but you need to sort them out the first chance you get.

 

[itma]

The super has three empty frames but no supplies, we havent heard about taking the excluder off, does the queen get fed by the workers?

No honey there? Its a liability like that.
Remove it, remove those frames from it.
Take off the QX, put the crownboard straight on top of the brood box.
Put the totally empty super back on top of the crownboard with the roof on top.
The super is now an eke, providing cover for fondant or insulation (or both).



Have you done a beginners course? If not, then you should get on one ASAP.

 

[MuswellMetro]

The super has three empty frames but no supplies, we havent heard about taking the excluder off, does the queen get fed by the workers?

remove the super, just air they have to heat....remove the queen excluder, only used in the honey season when the super is above....

the queen is fed a mix of honey and secretion from the worker glands, it is similar to royal jelly and better than bee milk given to larva, She ican be fed about twice or thrice her weight per day if she is laying eggs, less food in winter...she can feed herself but in normal circumstances she does not as a diet of honey and pollen is not what she needs to lay eggs but getting cold in the problem if the workers move away above the QE

You might want to keep them warm with a quilt or insualtion above the crown board

Are they on an OMF, if so is the board in or out

 

[MuswellMetro]

There mus t be something wrong!!!!


four beekeepers agreeing

 

[drstitson]

how heavy is the brood box???? still light and in need of feeding?

personally IMHO if you intend the fondant to replace syrup you should be putting a good half a block (flattened a bit) directly on top of the frames - using an apiguard eke then solid crownboard on top.

otherwise 1/3 block on in same configuration when oxalic treatment given at new year.

 

[oliver90owner]

Now the others are getting the stores sorted out, I would ask whether they were treated for varroa in the autumn.

 

[farbee]

No honey there? Its a liability like that.
Remove it, remove those frames from it.
Take off the QX, put the crownboard straight on top of the brood box.
Put the totally empty super back on top of the crownboard with the roof on top.
The super is now an eke, providing cover for fondant or insulation (or both).



Have you done a beginners course? If not, then you should get on one ASAP.

It is surprising what some courses seem to miss out. I learnt all this stuff after the course.

Good luck Geohorn you will geat advise here. It is a steep learning curve but make sure you act on the advise given.

 

[REDWOOD]

I learnt all this stuff after the course

And you will never stop

 

[Geohorn]

Thnks very much for the advice. We will take out the QE tomorrow and remove the empty three frames from the super. then we can feed through the CB.
They have some stores but not sure of the weight to be honest. Removing the super makes sense not having to warm the air contained in it.
Do you feed all through the winter?

 

[Travelator]

The ideal situation is to get the bees themselves plus 15-20kg (30-40lb) of stored honey/syrup into a suitable set of boxes without too much extra space.

If they're set up like that and they have been treated for varroa in the autumn then you should be able to leave them completely alone until march (although a lot of people like to heft the hives occasionally to check that they aren't getting too light).

If, for whatever reason, they don't have enough stores at the beginning of the winter then, yes, you will need to keep feeding them all the way through.

 

[drstitson]

if you have the equivalent of a full brood box AND super (or 14x12) then should be ok til spring.

anything less needs a decent chunk of fondant.