New swarm!

[klisic]

Hi all,

Just some advice needed.

I got a medium sized swarm from my friend three weeks ago, i have inspected them three times, and can't find the queen.

There are eggs larve, and capped brood with stores. From the latest inspection i could see what looked like qc!!

can anyone shed some light from these photo's please.


thanks

Karl.

 

[VEG]

Some cells do look like emergency queen cells, but there are newly laid upright eggs in some cells

 

[MandF]

Well the eggs look fairly well deposited, and can only see 1 in each cell, so I would say you have a queen.

All the brood looks like drone brood, so it looks like you have a virgin queen/drone layer. If she hasnt mated she would also be smaller and therefore more difficult to spot.

I think you need to donate a frame with eggs on from your other hive (so they can raise a proper queen), or get another queen in asap for this hive.

 

[klisic]

Some cells do look like emergency queen cells, but there are newly laid upright eggs in some cells

Ok thanks what do I need to do now, do I just let them get on with it?

 

[MandF]

Some cells do look like emergency queen cells, but there are newly laid upright eggs in some cells

I thought it was probably a "king cell", ie they are trying to create a queen from an unfertilised egg in desperation...

 

[exmoorbee]

I have had this with a few swarms. my guess is they swarmed because the queen was on her last legs, now set up a new home and about to peg it breeding new Q cells to replace. weather they will sucseed or re swarm, who knows. I would go through, find the queen squash her and let one Q cell come on to replace her. or if you want to give her a chance and have enough kit do an AS.

although as others have said, there does seem to be a lot of drone brood. I agree with Mand F

 

[klisic]

I have had this with a few swarms. my guess is they swarmed because the queen was on her last legs, now set up a new home and about to peg it breeding new Q cells to replace. weather they will sucseed or re swarm, who knows. I would go through, find the queen squash her and let one Q cell come on to replace her. or if you want to give her a chance and have enough kit do an AS.

although as others have said, there does seem to be a lot of drone brood. I agree with Mand F

Problem is I can't see her!

 

[Foxylad]

Looks like a drone layer to me, i cant see any worker cells.

The QC, look like drone brood pulled out.

 

[VEG]

MandF
They do look like drone cells but it may be photos of the same frames. I have some hives with frames they like to lay up drone brood in large irregular shaped comb.
You need to monitor the sealed cells this will then tell you if you have a drone laying queen. If you do then you will need to find her and kill her then go about buying in a queen or giving them a frame of eggs from another hive.

 

[the beehive lodge]

is there a thing called a king cell

I thought it was probably a "king cell", ie they are trying to create a queen from an unfertilised egg in desperation...

has anyone ever seen what emerges if there is a drone (king cell)

 

[MandF]

Problem is I can't see her!

Yeah, that is a problem! Especially if she is small enough to fit through a QE because a last resort option is sometimes to sift them through a QE.

Have you tried the "book" technique - putting 2 frames together with a gap either side, the theory being she will go in between them as it is darker?

It looks like the bees want her out anyway, if they are making supercedure cells, so donating a frame is still an option, the problem being that if you cannot find the current queen, there is always a chance she will kill off the new one when she emerges.

 

[VEG]

A confused drone with a tiara lol

 

[MandF]

has anyone ever seen what emerges if there is a drone (king cell)

Im guessing a very contented fat drone

 

[For want of a better word]

Shake all the bees into a new BB with new comb
Put old BB with drawn brood and no bees above new BB with a QE between
Let settle for 24 hours.
Set old BB on original stance and put new to one side.
Re queen old BB with old brood & bees
Flying bees will return to original stance and old BB
Pour a large glass of vodka
Look through new BB and see if you can find old queen
If seen catch, drown in vodka and down in one... shake remaining bees onto front of old BB
Lie down !

 

[klisic]

Shake all the bees into a new BB with new comb
Put old BB with drawn brood and no bees above new BB with a QE between
Let settle for 24 hours.
Set old BB on original stance and put new to one side.
Re queen old BB with old brood & bees
Flying bees will return to original stance and old BB
Pour a large glass of vodka
Look through new BB and see if you can find old queen
If seen catch, drown in vodka and down in one... shake remaining bees onto front of old BB
Lie down !

Hi thanks, only problem no spare bb!

 

[For want of a better word]

Hi thanks, only problem no spare bb!

Put 2 supers together... hardly matters for this excercise!

 

[oliver90owner]

Time line gives a few clues, as long as the swarm was a 'fresh' one three weeks ago.

Odds on it is not a virgin queen. Most likely a prime swarm (cappings on some cells looks quite discoloured), so brood has been in there longer than half that time. Drone layers do not normally start to lay until they are past their mating window. Some do not seem to appreciate that. So I am with Exmoor bee, apart from his last para.

May have been a supercedure that changed to a swarm (can happen if a beek knocks down queen cells, per eg)

There may be a queen cell amonst that lot, as one or two cells may be worker, but I doubt it.

You will need to find the queen and remove her. She may well be a normal size (and, as an aside, virgin queen drone layers need not be any differently sized than an 'out of sperm' queen) but, of course, she may also be a scrubby queen in the first place.

 

[klisic]

Time line gives a few clues, as long as the swarm was a 'fresh' one three weeks ago.

Odds on it is not a virgin queen. Most likely a prime swarm (cappings on some cells looks quite discoloured), so brood has been in there longer than half that time. Drone layers do not normally start to lay until they are past their mating window. Some do not seem to appreciate that. So I am with Exmoor bee, apart from his last para.

May have been a supercedure that changed to a swarm (can happen if a beek knocks down queen cells, per eg)

There may be a queen cell amonst that lot, as one or two cells may be worker, but I doubt it.

You will need to find the queen and remove her. She may well be a normal size (and, as an aside, virgin queen drone layers need not be any differently sized than an 'out of sperm' queen) but, of course, she may also be a scrubby queen in the first place.

I was with friend when we got swarm, we seen it happen. I'm not sure how I will manage to get her as not seen her yet!

 

[thepliedes]

I've never killed a queen. I leave the bees to do their thing and never had problems. They know better than me.

 

[klisic]

I've never killed a queen. I leave the bees to do their thing and never had problems. They know better than me.

So many different answers, I'm even more confused now. No idea what to do next!!