New renegade beekeeper Stirlingshire

[JamezF]

skeps

The were never as good after "H" left.

James

 

[emmac79]

There are a number of arrogant supercillious beeks on this forum who like nothing better than patronising new bee keepers and parading their expertise.

You’re not wrong. Thank you.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I did ask that you play nicely. Is there now any point to this thread?

 

[Lislarybees]

Hi emmac79 - if you havn't been put off beekeeping for ever by your experience on this forum can I suggest looking at Layens hives. I started experimenting with them last year and they have lots of advantages especially if you are looking to be a little less hands on. There are many other pluses but chief amongst them is that they are also back friendly. These are the resources I have found most useful

Natural Beekeeping | Horizontal Hives | Extra-deep Frames - this has loads of information along with plans for building your own layens hive. Their guide to swarm catching is really helpful. I caught 10 swarms last year following the guide on the site.

The book 'Keeping Bees with a smile' by Fedor Lazutin is a great read for any bee keeper.

You can purchase Layens hives from Spain for a very reasonable price - although I am sure you can find them in the UK also. The hives from Spain aren't the super insulated version you will find the plans for on Horizontalhive.com but they will get you started.

Good luck in your first year beekeeping

 

[Erichalfbee]

There is also Phil Chandlers website

https://www.biobees.com/

 

[pargyle]

I did ask that you play nicely. Is there now any point to this thread?

No ... I don't think there is ...we've seen a few come and go over the years that want to tread their own path, regardless ... mostly new beekeepers with the best intentions but following a fad idea that has little relevance in beekeeping. This is primarily a forum for people who want to keep bees - be it on an industrial scale, an odd hive or two in the back garden or anywhere in between - but the members interests are mainly in keeping bees and the care of their livestock that this entails.

I tread my own path and I invite others to follow their's ....but the established paths in beekeeping are fairly wide as it is without having to dive into the undergrowth. There is plenty of opportunity to experiment, find out what works and what doesn't, but there are parameters in keeping bees which you get to know after a few years in the craft and straying outside of those established parameters usually means failure and failure in beekeeping normally results in either lost or dead bees.

Some (most) people come here to learn or to ask when their knowledge falls short of a situation they have found themselves in and they generally find their enquiries are satisfied. A few come here with fixed ideas, ignore good advice and disappear into the ether never to be seen again.

We never ban people for having an opinion, no matter how wayward that opinion may be; I don't know what the OP hopes to gain from the forum ... time will tell I suppose ?

 

[user 20297]

Posting as a self-described, "renegade beekeeper,", I think we can assume that @emmac79 has already considered the differences and possible disadvantages of unconventional beekeeping
Fortunately, she appears to be very resilient and has a great sense of humour, to the point of already having upset the accepted etiquette of cap-doffing to conventional "wisdom".
I'm emboldened to say that the video on "bottle-beekeeping" thrown up by her thread is very interesting, and was made by someone who obviously has a great competence in and understanding of beekeeping.
What is the point of closing threads simply because they cause a debate. Is this forum setup solely so that people can ask for or give advice, or is it a forum for constructive discussion about our shared experiences and love of bees?

 

[user 20297]

Theirs.

 

[pargyle]

Emma - well done. You found one of the forums 'trigger words' - skeps

Look back through the forum and see how many people got jumped on for using this as any part of what they do. You will also find they mainly left. So only those that keep to the strict methods sanctioned by this UNREPRESENTATIVE group end up staying.

You take your own journey. 99% of this forum against an idea does not make the idea wrong.

A fun idea - See if you can any more of the trigger words. Here are a few - Wild bees, treatment free, saving bees, exotic imports............... if it doesn't fit THEIR way - it must surely be the wrong way

What a load of unadulterated twaddle !

If you tread a different path expect people to challenge your ideas and methods and be prepared to defend them. Nobody gets censured or censored or sanctioned on here. Although 99% of the forum telling you it's a bad idea should set warning bells ringing ... but it's a free world - if something floats your boat then go for it ... even if it's destined to sink !

 

[bingevader]

but the members interests are mainly in keeping bees and the care of their livestock that this entails.

Oh, I think there are a growing number of us who are bee 'havers' rather than 'keepers', doesn't mean we are any less interested in the welfare of our bees, just that honey production isn't the main objective.
I 'have' a cat, I enjoy its company, it provides very little else to the arrangement (despite the input it requires), why should bee 'having' be any different?
We use Warre hives and 'have' our bees organically (although the honey will never be regarded as organic).
We manage for swarms and treat for varroa, but it's all about the 'having' rather than keeping and I love it.

 

[Wilco]

Oh, I think there are a growing number of us who are bee 'havers' rather than 'keepers', doesn't mean we are any less interested in the welfare of our bees, just that honey production isn't the main objective.
I 'have' a cat, I enjoy its company, it provides very little else to the arrangement (despite the input it requires), why should bee 'having' be any different?
We use Warre hives and 'have' our bees organically (although the honey will never be regarded as organic).
We manage for swarms and treat for varroa, but it's all about the 'having' rather than keeping and I love it.

I'd argue that your description sounds like beekeeping rather than bee 'having' ('behaving'?).

Presumably with the cat you provide it with food, water, somewhere to sleep and take it to the vet if it needs it? Whilst the analogy is imperfect and we might use different words for having a pet or keeping bees, the principles are conserved.

@emmac79 many of us on here have made a lot of mistakes in beekeeping. Part of the reason there is firm pushback against some topics is a desire to help others avoid the sadness that comes from those mistakes and discovering your bees have died, which is a truly horrible experience for both the bees and the keeper. As others have said, it's your beekeeping journey to navigate. FWIW, I would counsel that the existing 'path' may be easier under foot, at least to begin with. There is a lot of good on this forum, and a lot of good people - even if we come across as rather cantankerous.

 

[rolande]

I'm emboldened to say that the video on "bottle-beekeeping" thrown up by her thread is very interesting, and was made by someone who obviously has a great competence in and understanding of beekeeping.

I'm of much the same opinion which is why I mentioned much earlier that I'd suggest getting some regular bee management experience too. I don't think anyone will ever reach a good level of understanding without what we might think of as traditional beekeeping experience (although it's actually quite the opposite).

Low touch beekeeping works much better in this day and age if we have hands on knowledge to begin with. This of course also applies equally to the people who look at their moveable comb hives once or twice a year. Our bee seasons are already short enough, it's a hobby where we might be lucky and get 6 months of practical experience each year. A hour a week, perhaps, for 6 months. All of a sudden we start to realise that we have very little time to actually learn to read the colonies.

 

[Erichalfbee]

There is nothing wrong with discussing how you want to have bees...at all, and the moderators will defend the right to post about it on the forum.
Emma is welcome to try her hand at it any way she chooses.
My issue is with people who seldom actually post about beekeeping but jump eagerly on a thread as a platform for agitation.

 

[emmac79]

I did ask that you play nicely. Is there now any point to this thread?

Yes, I think so.

Hi emmac79 - if you havn't been put off beekeeping for ever by your experience on this forum can I suggest looking at Layens hives. I started experimenting with them last year and they have lots of advantages especially if you are looking to be a little less hands on. There are many other pluses but chief amongst them is that they are also back friendly. These are the resources I have found most useful

Thank you. I'll go take a look. This is precisely what I'm interested in. Other ideas that fit the principle that I don't know about. That's what forums are great for!

Posting as a self-described, "renegade beekeeper,", I think we can assume that @emmac79 has already considered the differences and possible disadvantages of unconventional beekeeping
Fortunately, she appears to be very resilient and has a great sense of humour, to the point of already having upset the accepted etiquette of cap-doffing to conventional "wisdom".
I'm emboldened to say that the video on "bottle-beekeeping" thrown up by her thread is very interesting, and was made by someone who obviously has a great competence in and understanding of beekeeping.

Thank you.

What a load of unadulterated twaddle !

If you tread a different path expect people to challenge your ideas and methods and be prepared to defend them. Nobody gets censured or censored or sanctioned on here. Although 99% of the forum telling you it's a bad idea should set warning bells ringing ... but it's a free world - if something floats your boat then go for it ... even if it's destined to sink !

Yes, we all follow our own path and find out what works and doesn't. It's how we learn. Absolutely fine to get others opinions and find out as much as possible from those doing it. That said, I won't be gaslit into accepting that the "advice" towards me and others that I've seen on this forum by certain members hasn't been outright rude, dismissive, bullying and palpably repellent. For that reason I'm very clear on why certain members over time have disappear into the ether. I was almost one of them.

I'd argue that your description sounds like beekeeping rather than bee 'having' ('behaving'?).

Presumably with the cat you provide it with food, water, somewhere to sleep and take it to the vet if it needs it? Whilst the analogy is imperfect and we might use different words for having a pet or keeping bees, the principles are conserved.

@emmac79there is firm pushback against some topics is a desire to help others avoid the sadness that comes from those mistakes and discovering your bees have died, which is a truly horrible experience for both the bees and the keeper. As others have said, it's your beekeeping journey to navigate. FWIW, I would counsel that the existing 'path' may be easier under foot, at least to begin with. There is a lot of good on this forum, and a lot of good people - even if we come across as rather cantankerous.

Yeah, nah. I've spoken to other members here who know what this behaviour is and sugar-coating it that way doesn't cut with me. But yeah, you're right about the path. I'm certainly not out to make it easier on myself. Crawling around a field collecting fresh cow poo and spending 40 minutes smearing it by hand on a basket wasn't easy

I'm of much the same opinion which is why I mentioned much earlier that I'd suggest getting some regular bee management experience too. I don't think anyone will ever reach a good level of understanding without what we might think of as traditional beekeeping experience (although it's actually quite the opposite).

Low touch beekeeping works much better in this day and age if we have hands on knowledge to begin with. This of course also applies equally to the people who look at their moveable comb hives once or twice a year. Our bee seasons are already short enough, it's a hobby where we might be lucky and get 6 months of practical experience each year. A hour a week, perhaps, for 6 months. All of a sudden we start to realise that we have very little time to actually learn to read the colonies.

Agreed. Thank you!

We use Warre hives and 'have' our bees organically (although the honey will never be regarded as organic).
We manage for swarms and treat for varroa, but it's all about the 'having' rather than keeping and I love it.

I'll look again at the Warre. Thank you.


All in all, a lively thread. Appreciate the feedback from those who delivered it with grace and style, despite every cell of their body disagreeing with me.

Best wishes,

Emma

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes, I think so.

I was alluding to the forum agitprop
Not to your further research here.
And nobody is gaslighting you

 

[emmac79]

I was alluding to the forum agitprop
Not to your further research here.
And nobody is gaslighting you

Apologies, I didn't see a comment about agitprop? Must've missed it.

Yes, gaslighting is indeed what's taking place here. But I agree to disagree with you on that.

Thanks, Eric.

 

[Murox]

Lislarybees said:
Hi emmac79 - if you havn't been put off beekeeping for ever by your experience on this forum can I suggest looking at Layens hives. I started experimenting with them last year and they have lots of advantages especially if you are looking to be a little less hands on. There are many other pluses but chief amongst them is that they are also back friendly. These are the resources I have found most useful

Thank you. I'll go take a look. This is precisely what I'm interested in. Other ideas that fit the principle that I don't know about. That's what forums are great for!

Yes the Layens hive and indeed his whole system works well for some of my homemade "long" hives. The books and websites Lisarybees mentioned are well worth visiting.

 

[Swarm]

Apologies, I didn't see a comment about agitprop? Must've missed it.

Yes, gaslighting is indeed what's taking place here. But I agree to disagree with you on that.

Thanks, Eric.

Sorry you've had to deal with rude replies, manners cost nothing and I've always maintained it's possible to disagree with someone while still being polite.
Personally, I wouldn't dream of keeping bees in a skep but I would neither criticise nor condemn your choice. On the contrary I'm looking forward to hearing how it goes, there is a farm a few miles from me that has an old bee bole wall.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Personally, I wouldn't dream of keeping bees in a skep but I would neither criticise nor condemn your choice. On the contrary I'm looking forward to hearing how it goes, there is a farm a few miles from me that has an old bee bole wall.

I think we can criticise keeping bees in a plastic bottle though, don’t you?

 

[emmac79]

I think we can criticise keeping bees in a plastic bottle though, don’t you?

10 million views. 10,000 comments. Comments from beekeepers on the video would be my first port of call, Eric. If you're interested in a wider feedback from the beekeeping community. Hope that helps