New Queen trying to swarm

[Woodland bees]

One of my colonies replaced it's queen early on this year. She is small and I worried about how well she mated as it was early for us with few drones flying.

The good news is she's laying well with about 8 frames of brood & eggs.

The bad news is the colony is starting to produce Q cells.

The hive is a brood and half, although no Q excluder so brood and how ever many they fancy. There are two further supers, one almost full, one mostly empty.

The question is are they trying to swarm or supersede? Is there any way of knowing? The Q cells were being formed at the base of the super frames and there were several.

 

[GuyNir]

I’d say if you have more than 1-2 QC’s and the queen is present, they’re preparing to swarm.

 

[eltalia]

... question is are they trying to swarm or supersede? Is there any way of
knowing? The Q cells were being formed at the base of the super frames
and there were several.

Given you are happy enough with that queen I'd question even bothering
with wondering the outcome of QC building, make the decision for them
in giving them work to do in distraction. Shuffle brood frames at the outer
of the broodnest, that'll give the QC committee something to ponder on.

I attach an example for a single FD... adjust as you feel best for your stack.

Bill

 

[Finman]

.
Best to do artificial swarm then, when they have swarming fever.

 

[eltalia]

.
Best to do artificial swarm then, when they have swarming fever.

Any swarming is regressive for caste in a set colony, compounded when it is
two colonys in the equation.
Where you (b'keep) does not know this, or worse chooses to ignore what you
do know, then perhaps it is best to simply fit a QR gate (4.5mm) to let the bees
sort it out. See attached retail example of one QR gate style.

For those not "full bottle" on "AS" the link below is an accurate synopsis.
http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/artswarm.html

Bill

 

[Finman]

Any swarming is regressive for caste in a set colony, compounded when it is
two colonys in the equation

Bill

And what does that mean?

- what does mean two colonies in swarming heredity?
- and regressive?

 

[masterBK]

Is "Eltalia" a real person or a computer programmed to turn out gobbledegook on any beekeeping subject ? I have understood very little of his/her/its contributions and have almost given up trying to make sense of it (and believe me I have tried) or is it something simple like English being a second language?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Is "Eltalia" a real person or a computer programmed to turn out gobbledegook on any beekeeping subject ? I have understood very little of his/her/its contributions and have almost given up trying to make sense of it (and believe me I have tried) or is it something simple like English being a second language?

It's just white noise

 

[madasafish]

Is "Eltalia" a real person or a computer programmed to turn out gobbledegook on any beekeeping subject ? I have understood very little of his/her/its contributions and have almost given up trying to make sense of it (and believe me I have tried) or is it something simple like English being a second language?

I believe he/she is a troll of limited intelligence but with access to a computer dictionary so using random words designed to confuse us..
Success: I rarely read the BS produced.It's gibberish.

 

[Woodland bees]

I’d say if you have more than 1-2 QC’s and the queen is present, they’re preparing to swarm.

Thank you.

Just had another check and there's far more than a couple of QC's, a few cheekily hidden on the middle of a brood frame in the bottom box.

Strangely the 'small' queen is noticeably bigger than the last inspection and now looks normal size. I had wondered if there was more than one queen in the box but have only seen one during the last couple of full inspections and it's the same colour.

Anyway, the colony seems to be running out of room in the brood area. So I think I'll try Demareeing them with the aim of getting them onto a double brood.

 

[Finman]

Thank you.


Anyway, the colony seems to be running out of room in the brood area. So I think I'll try Demareeing them with the aim of getting them onto a double brood.

Demareering when you should add one brood box more?
That only mix the build up.

Just add the box and look what happens.

 

[eltalia]

@Woodland

Luckily the 'season' is too short in your climate to learn the lesson so
demaree may subvert your seen QC issue yet at the same time create
another, issue.
Were your climate otherwise it begs the question how many brood
boxes are you set to manage... really your thinking a patch, not any
solution.

Bill

 

[Woodland bees]

Demareering when you should add one brood box more?
That only mix the build up.

Just add the box and look what happens.

They'll just swarm will they not?

I've knocked back the Q cells twice now, so if I add a brood box is that going to stop them swarming?

As mentioned, they are on a brood box and then three supers with no Q excluder so I had hoped they had room.

 

[Ian123]

Adding a brood box may add enough space to confuse them, if they have got a mind to go though they still can. If 1 of your supers is filled with honey as you say earlier the queen can be reluctant to cross over however much space is above, but not sure how you have them arranged.

 

[eltalia]

As mentioned, they are on a brood box and then three supers with no Q excluder
so I had hoped they had room.

Space within the stack is not the issue, the issue is how bees percieve their
current status, and they reckon they are doing okay so it's time to then
make some change - thing is the choice they make might be one
you as a beekeeper would n0t choose.

Distract them... give out _some_ work to do, not restructure the whole job lot..!

Bill

 

[Woodland bees]

They were overwintered on a brood and a half, super on top. We've had trouble going over to double brood here so I thought I'd add supers without a Q ecluder to see how they go. I've added two more supers now, there's some brood in the 2nd and none in the third.

I had considered the first super might be causing problems, it has a large amount of pollen in it.

I'm worried if I simply add a brood box under the main brood they will still swarm as they've set their mind on it.

 

[Woodland bees]

Distract them... give out _some_ work to do, not restructure the whole job lot..!

I've replaced about two or three brood frames before I noticed swarm preparations and that hasn't stopped them. Those frames are now full of brood.

I could move the top, empty super down, place it on top of the brood box. Or move some of the frames down?

 

[eltalia]

(edit)
I'm worried if I simply add a brood box under the main brood they will still swarm as they've set their mind on it.

You really want a definitive answer on this to settle your own qualms...
what you yourself suspect may occur.
Thing is _nobody knows_ and cannot know as they are not onsite and so
other factors are blinded to a remote eye.
In the absence of knowing what you are seeing and you do not know what you
see the clearest answer you are going to get has been supplied.
Distract them.

Bill

 

[Millet]

Olive..

 

[eltalia]

I've replaced about two or three brood frames before I noticed swarm preparations
and that hasn't stopped them. Those frames are now full of brood.

Swarm prep starts long before you physically see anything.
You found a solution yourself before asking, just keep doing
that, swarm prevention is not a one day fix unless you install
a QR and so kill the urge.

Bill