New Queen laying Eggs Everywhere...

[dickbowyer]

I don't hold out much hope for a viable queen from this colony, but will use the bees as the basis of a new colony for another queen or bolstering others. The queen just has to be toast.

Hombre

I made the decision that they were laying workers and shook them out down the garden and most seemed to beg a place in the other hives. Is there a way to use such bees for a bought in Queen. Been suggested to add 2 frames of brood from Q+ colony and then introduce in cage after a week or so. How about putting new hive with drawn frames in old site and shaking bees out some distance away to cleanse of the laying workers and then introduce? Stupid or sensible?

 

[Poly Hive]

Enrico? It depends.

If we are discussing a normal situation then a non mated queen does in fact not lay.

A drone laying queen has run out of sperm and so lays unfertilised eggs.

I am given to believe but not being into serious breeding cannot say for sure but I have read that a virgin queen can be treated (Co2) comes to mind, and induced to lay drones for line breeding.

If one has a queen spraying cells with eggs BUT at least some of them are hitting the cell floor target then it is a queen finding her stride. Laying workers as I keep saying are not in fact that common.

PH

 

[susbees]

Enrico? It depends.

If we are discussing a normal situation then a non mated queen does in fact not lay.

Why not? Unless you believe that CO2 is essential to the process or that the workers won't feed-to-lay an unmated queen (but will a badly mated queen)? LWs lay and they aren't mated.

 

[Poly Hive]

why not? Because she just does not. Never heard of one doning it bar the specislised situation.

Look it up.

PH

 

[enrico]

Maybe I am just being pedantic. I know the biology of bees and how it all works I was just pointing out that there seems to be direct contradiction between the following two statements. I know which i think is right!!!!
I am not trying to wind anyone up just making a comment! Sorry if I was misunderstood
Thanks for explaining evrything anway
If she was not mated she would NOT be doing this, she is learning to control her egg laying and it can take some of them a few days. Worry not the bees will sort it all out for you. Non mated queens do not lay. Quote from Poly
An unfertilised queen can only lay unfertilised eggs Quote from Nickjay
End of conversation methinks!
xx

 

[Poly Hive]

I am talking about "normal" circumstances.

Normally an unmated queen will not lay although some will become useless drone layers when they become stale. I say useless as at that point the drones are not normal sized drones and I imagine to an II person they are useless though no doubt Norton will be along to correct me on this.

I believe it is possible to induce a non mated virgin to lay usable drone brood though after a half hour looking I have failed to find evidence for it. However I am sure in my own mind I read it at some point and I think it was Atkinson writing in the quarterly.

When you begin to discuss matters out of the norm you will find that the norm is pretty much anything can happen or be made to happen but that does not make it normal behaviour.

PH

 

[drstitson]

PH - the CO2 treatment is a longstanding technique in academic circles.

from a 1976 paper from university of Tubingen:

"Virgin honey bee queens were allatectomised a few days after emergence. Surviving queens were treated twice with CO2 and introduced into small colonies. All the experimental queens started oviposition.
Normal drone brood production was observed in allatectomised young queens.
The results demonstrate that in the honey bee, initiation of oögenesis and maintenance of vitellogenesis can take place in the absence of corpora allata, which are the normal source of juvenile hormone supply."

and from a more modern (2008) south african paper:

"Mature queen pupae were allowed to eclose in an incubator at 35°, and the virgins were then matured in the incubator in individual vials for 7 days, while being fed ad libitum on diluted honey. The queens were then anesthetized for 10 min with carbon dioxide to induce oviposition "

 

[Poly Hive]

Many thanks I knew I had read it somewhere some time but not being an academic....

Thanks again

PH

 

[susbees]

If she was not mated she would NOT be doing this, she is learning to control her egg laying and it can take some of them a few days. Worry not the bees will sort it all out for you. Non mated queens do not lay. Quote from Poly
An unfertilised queen can only lay unfertilised eggs Quote from Nickjay
End of conversation methinks!
xx

Non mated stale queens can lay I believe is the compromise

 

[Howsoonisnow]

Enrico, a fertilised (mated) queen can lay eggs that are either fertilised or non-fertilised. This allows her to chose between laying female workers/queens (fertilised) or drones (unfertilised). An unfertilised queen can only lay unfertilised eggs, I.e. Drones.
A drone is an exact genetic replica of the queen and therefore no fertilisation is required.

Drones are haploid, queens diploid; drones maybe seen as an exact genetic replica of half the queens's genome (ignoring any mutation).

 

[nickyjay]

"Drones are haploid, queens diploid; drones maybe seen as an exact genetic replica of half the queens's genome (ignoring any mutation)."

Nicely put!
N

 

[Mandeville]

It looked very much to be a drone layer and I have little hope that the situation will improve meaningfully. I noticed that queen cells have been started, but decided to put a Qx underneath and will sort them out as per a drone laying queen at my convenience. I don't hold out much hope for a viable queen from this colony, but will use the bees as the basis of a new colony for another queen or bolstering others. The queen just has to be toast.

I'm confused by this (not an unusual situation for me ).
If the queen is a drone layer, why/how would queen cells be produced?