New bees not drawing out foundation

[Hivemaker.]

but not for watering lawns and washing cars

Who wants to water lawns and wash cars?

 

[BeeJayBee]

I moved an over wintered 6 frame nuc in to a poly hive last week, but that was because I am away from home for at least 2 weeks with work now and the nuc was already overcrowded (carnolian queen).

I have a 6 frame poly nuc, which has 4 frames stacked full of brood. If i dont move the bees out of the Nuc and into a hive in the next week or two, there will be and early swarm comming from them.

But you're not new to beekeeping, ValMc is

If the nucleus we've ordered had been delivered within the past week we would have put it on a stand, made sure it was insulated (same as out other hives), made sure they had food. Then we'd have left it alone until the weather is much warmer.

I don't know if it's the right or wrong thing to do, but it doesn't seem fair to put a small colony into a large, cool, half empty box and expect them to look after themselves and draw out new comb when the temperatures are hovering around 10C, and dropping into single figures every single night. ... But that's what new beekeepers are told to do when they get their first nucleus, it says so in all the books, and most of the internet 'advice' says the same too.

As these are already in their new brood box I'd agree that they should be disturbed as little as possible, and the dummy boards and insulation seem the best option. If kingspan isn't available, then crumpled up newspaper or bubble wrap would probably be just as useful to the bees ... along with an acrylic crown board, and insulation under the roof.

 

[Nightynight]

But you're not new to beekeeping, ValMc is

If the nucleus we've ordered had been delivered within the past week we would have put it on a stand, made sure it was insulated (same as out other hives), made sure they had food. Then we'd have left it alone until the weather is much warmer.

I don't know if it's the right or wrong thing to do, but it doesn't seem fair to put a small colony into a large, cool, half empty box and expect them to look after themselves and draw out new comb when the temperatures are hovering around 10C, and dropping into single figures every single night. ... But that's what new beekeepers are told to do when they get their first nucleus, it says so in all the books, and most of the internet 'advice' says the same too.

As these are already in their new brood box I'd agree that they should be disturbed as little as possible, and the dummy boards and insulation seem the best option. If kingspan isn't available, then crumpled up newspaper or bubble wrap would probably be just as useful to the bees ... along with an acrylic crown board, and insulation under the roof.

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=16236not worthy

 

[peteinwilts]

We could have a national water grid if we wanted.
Paying for it is the problem.

my brother (who was training to be a surveyer), had to perform an investigative project and he chose the water board.

he saw that for every household, the water board make a PROFIT of around £240 per household per year.

 

[Devallon]

Probably a bit early to be feeding syrup - I am still feeding fondant.
If bees are flying and returning with pollen, then the queen may well be laying, so that is a good sign. Too early to check if queen present or laying ought to wait for a day when air temperature above 15 - 17 degrees. Bees haven't read the book so they will only draw out foundation when they are ready !
Good luck !

 

[oliver90owner]

But that's what new beekeepers are told to do when they get their first nucleus,

Some might tell them that on this forum, but there are a lot who tell it straight, as it is. Warmth for the colony and new bees is the target, not cold and fill what new cells there are with sugar syrup. Some don't think and some do.

 

[Nightynight]

But that's what new beekeepers are told to do when they get their first nucleus,

Some might tell them that on this forum, but there are a lot who tell it straight, as it is. Warmth for the colony and new bees is the target, not cold and fill what new cells there are with sugar syrup. Some don't think and some do.

correct me if I am wrong bit 1:1 can't be stored.. so the bees would just be making use of it.. generating warmth and drawing comb, sounds like they are just using it as fuel warmth as they have not drawn any comb.

The sryup isn' the problem as there is brood in all stages and room to expand (foundation)... the best advise is IMO keep them shut up, leave them alone other than checking they have food by checking the feeder, the bees wil stop taking it if they have enough food, leave them for the next 2-3 weeks other than check if they are flying on warm days and hopefully bringing back pollen.

 

[Skyhook]

correct me if I am wrong bit 1:1 can't be stored.. so the bees would just be making use of it.. generating warmth and drawing comb, sounds like they are just using it as fuel warmth as they have not drawn any comb.

The sryup isn' the problem as there is brood in all stages and room to expand (foundation)... the best advise is IMO keep them shut up, leave them alone other than checking they have food by checking the feeder, the bees wil stop taking it if they have enough food, leave them for the next 2-3 weeks other than check if they are flying on warm days and hopefully bringing back pollen.

You're wrong, and I hereby correct you. If they can reduce and store nectar they can reduce and store syrup, it is just a less obvious course of action for them. This 'There were lots of honey stores on the old frames but no sign of drawing out the new frames?' from the OP shows where the syrup is going. Heat is very important for drawing foundation, a nucleus colony is going to find it hard going for a few weeks yet. In the meantime they will have no space for brood because it's all full of syrup.

.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Probably a bit early to be feeding syrup

Not in Ambridge it aint! - stumbled accross todays broadcast of the Archers when scanning for a budget report and one of the characters was concerned her bees were low on food so she was going to put some sugar syrup on the brood

 

[BeeJayBee]

But that's what new beekeepers are told to do when they get their first nucleus,

Some might tell them that on this forum, but there are a lot who tell it straight, as it is. Warmth for the colony and new bees is the target, not cold and fill what new cells there are with sugar syrup. Some don't think and some do.

Sorry, I didn't intend my comment to be taken as referring to any specific online resource. It's written in the books too. I've checked the 3 I have available at the moment - Hooper, Cramp and Gregory/Waring - all meant to be for newcomers to beekeeping. There's stuff about location, water, hive stands etc etc etc and then about what to do when the nucleus arrives.

I think the assumption is that a supplier will send out a nucleus at the right time - for the bees. That is something that doesn't seem to have happened in this instance.

 

[Devallon]

Probably a bit early to be feeding syrup - I am still feeding fondant.
If bees are flying and returning with pollen, then the queen may well be laying, so that is a good sign. Too early to check if queen present or laying ought to wait for a day when air temperature above 15 - 17 degrees. Bees haven't read the book so they will only draw out foundation when they are ready !
Good luck !

 

[Nightynight]

You're wrong, and I hereby correct you. If they can reduce and store nectar they can reduce and store syrup, it is just a less obvious course of action for them. This 'There were lots of honey stores on the old frames but no sign of drawing out the new frames?' from the OP shows where the syrup is going. Heat is very important for drawing foundation, a nucleus colony is going to find it hard going for a few weeks yet. In the meantime they will have no space for brood because it's all full of syrup.



.

and why would they do that, if that was the case why do bee's sometimes not take down sryup? Your logic bees are a totally dumb machine that does not react to the needs of the colony, .. sryrup... must ...store little winged ingors and do nothing else.

I still think the best advice is for OP to leave them well alone for 2-3 weeks and just check the feeder, look for pollen/nectar flow from incoming bee's and wait.

With regards to 1:1/sryup storage, the queen is running around looking for cells to lay eggs, I do not think the bees will have time to deposit the 1:1 IMO as the OP stated there are eggs and brood in all stages, the queen will plonked an egg in a cell everytime a bee hatches out if she gets the chance.. The senario of nowhere to lay would only really occur at the very end of winter and the bees had been feed huge amount of fondant throughout and sryup from the very first day... and were simply topping up the cells.

If the bees run out of space and they have ample food on tap they normaly ..draw comb and make some more space not sit around waiting to fill existing cells. That would be stupid, I suggest they are trying to keep warm.

 

[oliver90owner]

Bees will store 1:1. There is no argument about that.

When your nuc is full up with sugar syrup she will not have anywhere to lay. That is a simple fact. Yes feed if necessary, but a nuc should arrive/start with at least two weeks worth of stores and generally, in the UK, they will be foraging more strongly than needed - even without feeding. Shifting them to a full sized hive with lots of stores and few bees is not good practice.

Try thinking how the bees operate and you might understand it a little better. I often need to consider removing a frame of stores from a nuc to avoid hindering in any way their ability to raise as much brood as possible. I don't want sugar syrup in a nuc; I want as many bees as possible. Go think about it.

 

[Skyhook]

and why would they do that, if that was the case why do bee's sometimes not take down sryup? Your logic bees are a totally dumb machine that does not react to the needs of the colony, .. sryrup... must ...store little winged ingors and do nothing else.

No more so than someone buying chocolate and eating it. If they don't take down syrup, they probably have no-where to put it.

I still think the best advice is for OP to leave them well alone for 2-3 weeks and just check the feeder, look for pollen/nectar flow from incoming bee's and wait.

That would be reasonable now it's turning milder, but STOP FEEDING.

With regards to 1:1/sryup storage, the queen is running around looking for cells to lay eggs, I do not think the bees will have time to deposit the 1:1 IMO as the OP stated there are eggs and brood in all stages, the queen will plonked an egg in a cell everytime a bee hatches out if she gets the chance.. The senario of nowhere to lay would only really occur at the very end of winter and the bees had been feed huge amount of fondant throughout and sryup from the very first day... and were simply topping up the cells.

She will not lay until a cell has been polished and prepared, and that is down to what the workers think is the best use for it at that moment.

If the bees run out of space and they have ample food on tap they normaly ..draw comb and make some more space not sit around waiting to fill existing cells. That would be stupid, I suggest they are trying to keep warm.

Which comes back to the original point that they CAN'T draw foundation if it's too cold, and a nuc is unlikely to be able to get a full BB up to temperature if the weather is not warm enough.

.