NBU/FERA starvation warning

[jd101k2000]

I think humans are very good at making artificial distinctions. I'm intelligent because I don't burn myself with the iron because I realise it is hot. An animal is just responding to stimuli. (And doesn't wear clothes and certainly wouldn't go to the bother of flattening them!)

 

[AdrianSmith]

Actually, the bright lads like Prof Seeley are seeing close parallels between individual bees role and that of individual neurones in the brain of a higher animal.
The decision-making ability of the colony - as a whole - is of a much higher order than that of the individual insects.

Who was it who said "One is something but two is different"?
This is not new
Little squares in a grid who only know about their six neighbours can do arbitrarily complicated things.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway%27s_Game_of_Life
Anything computable can be computed by these things.
It explains a lot (like how can all those people in the HR department be doing something useful).

 

[lebouche]

Animals such as dogs are clearly capable of emotions…and it is less clear in others, but I would venture to say that almost all living creatures have the ability to emote in my opinion. The emotion of fear is essential for survival. Put your finger in front of an ant and watch as he/she realises something potentially threatening is in front of itself. It appears to poop its pants. Brain size and complexity does not necessarily correlate to intelligence. There are so many different forms of intelligence as any one who has studied IQ tests will know. Anyway, this paragraph was formulated after a 13 hour work day and three cans of cider.

 

[Moggs]

How absurd would you like to go?

In my absurd opinion, not only are the tens of thousands of individual bees in each colony intrinsically linked, codependent and harmonious in thought and deed, but each colony is also acutely aware of all the other bee colonies within flying range of its nest and will make intelligent, pragmatic and unanimous decisions based on this knowledge. Rather than a simple response to stimuli, this knowledge can transcend the lifespan of individual bees and the colony can retain memory of all the occupied nest sites within its range from previous seasons. The 'hive mind' of these fantastic social insects elevates them far above the traditional, robotic perception we have of decisions made in the insect world.

Co-dependence does not equate to intelligence. I really don't believe that a bee is capable of 'thought'.

Substitute 'decisions' for 'responses' and the argument becomes more meaningful.


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[oliver90owner]

What about so called 'artificial intelligence'? Try fitting that into the spectrum!

Define intelligence? What is the antonym? Stupidity? The forum itself will have a wide spectrum. Argue it or discuss it? Only the intelligent need respond!

 

[Hivemaker.]

Define intelligence?

Only the intelligent need respond!

RAB.

 

[Moggs]

Surely, instinct and conditioned behavioural responses to genetically 'programmed' inputs (stimuli) developed over many millennia (evolution) provides a better foundation for discussion than the anthropomorphic.


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[oliver90owner]

OK, so I regard you as intelligent! Maybe there will not be so many replies?!

 

[Moggs]

OK, so I regard you as intelligent! Maybe there will not be so many replies?!

You have enriched a day that has otherwise been filled with tedium!


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[lebouche]

Surely, instinct and conditioned behavioural responses to genetically 'programmed' inputs (stimuli) developed over many millennia (evolution) provides a better foundation for discussion than the anthropomorphic.


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Anthropomorphism is in it's self an arrogance. We are also the product of evolution, conditioned response, genetically programmed inputs etc.
We are more likely to mirror the traits of natures design than it us.

 

[Moggs]

Anthropomorphism is in it's self an arrogance. We are also the product of evolution, conditioned response, genetically programmed inputs etc.
We are more likely to mirror the traits of natures design than it us.

True. But we are also capable of much, much more.

Actually, the bright lads like Prof Seeley are seeing close parallels between individual bees role and that of individual neurones in the brain of a higher animal.

The decision-making ability of the colony - as a whole - is of a much higher order than that of the individual insects.

Indeed. A neuron is a cell that transmits messages upon electrical or chemical excitation. On its own, it does not exhibit intelligence. Bees need not respond.


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[REDWOOD]

Are we not the species with artificial intelligence, and evolution is a mater of opinion

 

[lebouche]

We can't even tell what other humans are thinking or are capable of, let alone insects. I remember a study in psychology which found that cockroaches displayed signs of competitiveness when placed into parallel translucent tubes and being encouraged to run.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Bees appear to have sufficient intelligence to survive in the long term unlike us, I suspect.

 

[bontbee]

This can't be true.

I agree. A colleague of mine hefted hives, felt they were of sufficient weight, but when he peeked in, found a starved colony surrounded by pollen.

With the best will in the world a colony can't go from heavy to starved in the blink of an eye and pollen weighs next to nothing. Either the colony wasn't up to weight in the first place or they failed for other reasons.

Not your fault but you may be best advised to take any advice from your colleague, (or anyone else), with caution.

Personally I don't open my hives between end of September 'til mid March and then only to add supers.

Chris

Thanks for the clarification, Chris.

When I said surrounded by pollen, I maybe should have said surrounded by combs of pollen. Apparently - I didn't see it for myself, as it wasn't my colony and I wasn't in the area at the time, or I'd have gone to have a look! - the colony was absolutely stuffed with pollen. I can't agree that pollen weighs "next to nothing", as once it has been prepped for winter storage, it does weigh in the comb. Not as heavy as honey of course, but, as happened here, it can give a misleading impression about the amount of stores within the hive - if the guy had looked he would have seen pollen stores, and not honey....

My real point is that taking a quick look in the brood box to see what is going on is very illuminating - particularly if you're not sure what is going on inside. As I said, I inspected mine 10 days ago - went into the brood box briefly in all of the colonies - and all was fine. I suspect that if the disturbance had been threatening to the bees, they would have seen me off. As it was, I didn't even need my veil up. My perspective is that there is no point in waiting til some arbitrary date on the calendar or until it is comfortable to be out in a t-shirt, to look at dead bees.

 

[itma]

My real point is that taking a quick look in the brood box to see what is going on is very illuminating - particularly if you're not sure what is going on inside. ... My perspective is that there is no point in waiting til some arbitrary date on the calendar or until it is comfortable to be out in a t-shirt, to look at dead bees.

Rather well put.

 

[Chris Luck]

Thanks for the clarification, Chris.

When I said surrounded by pollen, I maybe should have said surrounded by combs of pollen. Apparently - I didn't see it for myself, as it wasn't my colony and I wasn't in the area at the time, or I'd have gone to have a look! - the colony was absolutely stuffed with pollen. I can't agree that pollen weighs "next to nothing", as once it has been prepped for winter storage, it does weigh in the comb. Not as heavy as honey of course, but, as happened here, it can give a misleading impression about the amount of stores within the hive - if the guy had looked he would have seen pollen stores, and not honey....

My real point is that taking a quick look in the brood box to see what is going on is very illuminating - particularly if you're not sure what is going on inside. As I said, I inspected mine 10 days ago - went into the brood box briefly in all of the colonies - and all was fine. I suspect that if the disturbance had been threatening to the bees, they would have seen me off. As it was, I didn't even need my veil up. My perspective is that there is no point in waiting til some arbitrary date on the calendar or until it is comfortable to be out in a t-shirt, to look at dead bees.

None the less I still don't open the BB from the end of September until mid March and I rarely remove frames from my hives, but that's me a relatively non interventionist remarkably successful basic bee keeper that doesn't treat either.

Each to their own and until you can judge a colony any other way you are stuck with having to look.

Chris

 

[Dishmop]

My real point is that taking a quick look in the brood box to see what is going on is very illuminating - particularly if you're not sure what is going on inside. ..

.

Pretty obvious really.

 

[bontbee]

.

Pretty obvious really.

Yes, it is, but beginners are still being told not to look in their hives.....

 

[Dishmop]

Yes, it is, but beginners are still being told not to look in their hives.....

I meant that it was pretty obvious that you dont know whats inside until you look.

The reason that beginers are being tld not to look inside is because there is 99% probablity that there is no reason to and also that they might mess things up.