National to Langstroth move.

[bjosephd]

So I have decided to move completely to Langstroth for various reasons after much thought. I currently have two hives... one National and one Langstroth.

So the first thing I want to do when the time is right next spring is get the National colony into a fresh new Langstroth box.

I know I can cable tie in the frames into Langstroth frames, but I don't want to do this with 10 frames, and the frames/combs are in need of replacement anyway.

How would you go about this transfer?

I am considering some kind of converter board between the two boxes... but would you put the Langstroth on top with or without a QE, OR the Langstroth box below, and again, with or without a QE (assuming you can sneak the queen down into that box before the QE goes on).

Or other option... Baily Comb Change kind of thing? Or just shake them all into the empty Langstroth and forfeit the brood left behind

With a converter board of some sorts there's also the miss match between top/bottom bee space to think about.

Thanks...

BJD

 

[For want of a better word]

Or other option... Baily Comb Change kind of thing? Or just shake them all into the empty Langstroth and forfeit the brood left behind

I did this the other way round... langstroths to Nationals... fed up with awkward sized frames and more expensive kit! Agree running more than one frame type is a pain!!!

Yeghes da

 

[bjosephd]

Haha... yes, we all find our own reasons to choose one hive or another... at the end of the day it's a box with frames and bees, all much of a muchness... but yes, one frame type is key as no doubt one hive will need to save the other sooner or later!

So did you shake them in? Or bailey style? Or what exactly? And what kind of results and problems did you come across?

 

[For want of a better word]

Haha... yes, we all find our own reasons to choose one hive or another... at the end of the day it's a box with frames and bees, all much of a muchness... but yes, one frame type is key as no doubt one hive will need to save the other sooner or later!

So did you shake them in? Or bailey style? Or what exactly? And what kind of results and problems did you come across?

Langs had some very old black and ugly foundation... bees had been in there for 5 to 6 years.
I looked at Lang Pollies and could not find anything being manufactured at that time that was up to my expectations, made a decision to buy some BHS pollies.
This decision was partly due to having recently acquired 20 Paynes polly nucs, which use the standard National sized brood frames.

Transfer was a simple shake of the bees into the new hives... once the queen was found and captured.... run in once all the rest of the family were at home... used a brood as a funnel to get the bees into the new hive.
Placed on the old stance and the lang removes ... no problems.
All colonies (10) boombed on the new foundation ( did give a 9 liter feed of 1:1 in a National Asforth feeder) to help them through the loss of stores.

Yeghes da

 

[bjosephd]

Cool beans...

Did you put a QE under the new BB for a while? And for how long? And what time
Of year/month did you do it, and did that mean you forfeited much brood on the old frames?

 

[Tom Bick]

With a converter board of some sorts there's also the miss match between top/bottom bee space to think about.

Thanks...

BJD

Not if your converter board is 6 - 8 mm thick and your national is currently bottom bee space and placed on the bottom. Your converter board will convert it to top bee space.

I converted a national to langstroth this year and went well if you are going to do this in the spring then you also have shook swarm.

 

[bjosephd]

Do shook swarms get going quickly like a 'swarmed' swarm? Or is it quite disturbing for the bees to be turfed out of their old home? Any risks? (assuming you look after the queen on transfer in a cage or wotnot) Is a shook swarm thought of as a good thing?

(Also hoping to be foundationless also... my wired langstroth frames in the other hive have been drawn out beautifully! BUT throwing a whole colony into a box of foundationless frames... risky...??)

 

[madasafish]

Do shook swarms get going quickly like a 'swarmed' swarm? Or is it quite disturbing for the bees to be turfed out of their old home? Any risks? (assuming you look after the queen on transfer in a cage or wotnot) Is a shook swarm thought of as a good thing?

(Also hoping to be foundationless also... my wired langstroth frames in the other hive have been drawn out beautifully! BUT throwing a whole colony into a box of foundationless frames... risky...??)

My experiences of jumbo langs and foundationless was such I went to foundation...

 

[For want of a better word]

Cool beans...

Did you put a QE under the new BB for a while? And for how long? And what time
Of year/month did you do it, and did that mean you forfeited much brood on the old frames?

Queen clipped and marked... no need for a qx
Spring is good
Feed Feed Feed!

Yeghes da

 

[Finman]

.
Keep the colony in National. When it starts to enlarge next spring, it needs a new box, put the Queen to lay into Langstroth, when boath boxes are full of bees. National over excluder and bees will emerge in 3 weeks. So, National works as super.

 

[bjosephd]

.
Keep the colony in National. When it starts to enlarge next spring, it needs a new box, put the Queen to lay into Langstroth, when boath boxes are full of bees. National over excluder and bees will emerge in 3 weeks. So, National works as super.

So just to confirm what that is...

Put empty Langstroth box in bottom position
Overwintered National box on top with no QE between them
When both boxes are full of bees ensure queen is in Langstroth on the bottom and add excluder between.
3 weeks later National will be empty of brood.

 

[Finman]

So just to confirm what that is...

Put empty Langstroth box in bottom position
Overwintered National box on top with no QE between them
When both boxes are full of bees ensure queen is in Langstroth on the bottom and add excluder between.
3 weeks later National will be empty of brood.

So it goes. You do not get any losses in build up.

.

 

[bjosephd]

And when am I likely to be doing this? I don't want to do it too early in spring… but I do want to do it well before any swarm preparations.

When normally is the earliest that people might put a second brood box on or supers? Lat march?

 

[Swarm]

You can't go by month, it's the weather and conditions that dictate.

 

[bjosephd]

Obviously... just wondering when roughly these sort of things tend to happen.

I imagine never february, and normally late may would be a bit late.

Basically what I'm asking is when should I have my kit all glued and nailed up and ready to go?

 

[madasafish]

Obviously... just wondering when roughly these sort of things tend to happen.

I imagine nearer February, and normally late may would be a bit late.

Basically what I'm asking is when should I have my kit all glued and nailed up and ready to go?

I have two nationals (kindly donated to me after AFB) which I plan to migrate to Langs next year. I am pencilling in first/second half March - assuming we don't get a cold spring. If we get the cold winter some are saying (Berwick swans etc), then mid April.

But bear in mind we are 350 feet above sea level on the edge of the Pennines so may be much later than others.

I plan to have all equipment ready by January. I like to season any paint/glue etc so the hives don't smell of strange odours.

 

[bjosephd]

Great... thanks...