National hive and Modified national

[Liam C Ryan]

Hi All , What is the difference between a National and a Modified National hive ,
I,m doing exams in the summer.

 

[Mike a]

Quick answer is 90mm

National hive takes National frames but after modifying the brood chamber with a 90mm simple eke or purpose made eke so it can take 14x12 frames.

See the pale coloured wood in the middle of the hive between brood chamber and super.

ps this hive was made by HM

 

[Hebeegeebee]

Mikea - wrong I'm afraid doesn't refer to the frame depth.

Nealy all our hives are strictly modified Nats. Originally Nats were made more like Langstroths but with a thick wooden end - the modified versions came later and have the current hand-hold method. Size of 18 1/8" square is the same.

 

[Poly Hive]

Above is correct.

PH

 

[johnandyrob]

The original national was brought in in about 1920 it was 181/2" square and made of 7/8" timber. modified national was brought in because of timber shortage of that size in 1946 Regards Andrew

 

[johnandyrob]

P.S which is what Hebeegeebies and Poly hive just said. Have a look on Dave Cushmans web site Regards Andrew

 

[wightbees]

Around 1920 one pattern the simplicity hive became generally accepted.There is some confusion about this name as the same title had been used by the A1 root co. for a hive of langstroth dimensions which they manufactured in 1870's.The inherent problem in a single walled hive using Brit standard frames was how to accommodate long lugs.In the Simplicity,this was solved by making the end walls double,and letting the lug rest on a lower inner wall.This was not a truly single walled hive.Nevertheless, it became known and accepted as the national hive.Latter, the double end walls were dispensed with,the frame lugs being accommodated in a rebate1"x1 1/2" bar which fits on the outside of the end walls. This pattern is known as the mod national and was included in British standards 1300, initially published in 1946, revised 1960


This was taken from> A Case Of Hives Len Heath BBNO

 

[Liam C Ryan]

Thanks for the replies lads

 

[Gardenbees]

Apropos of nothing much: I once tried making an old-style National hive.
It weighed a ton, but was actually a nice, well-insulated hive that the bees did well in. I left it when I moved on, years ago, and I believe it's still in use (18 yrs?). Not remarkable except that it was made of pine, not cedar. In fact, for anyone thinking of making a National out of deal, I'd recommend the chunkier measurements, as long as you're not planning on carting the hive around a lot. It had cupboard-door handles!

 

[Mike a]

Most beeks I talk to now consider the modified National is a 14x12 but your all spot on if you want to go back to 1920's and be precise about it...

 

[Poly Hive]

Not being picky Mike but that kind of sloppy nomenclature really helps no one.

It's not a case of going back to the 20's but more a matter of accuracy esp for an exam situation.

The "Modified National" is called in general a National. That is ubiquitous. Even Th*rnes call it that.

A 14 x 12 is just that. Possibly could be called a Deep National.

PH

 

[oliver90owner]

Possibly could be called a Deep National.

not a 14 x 12. It is a jumbo.

Deep is your 'standatrd brood as some call it. Hence frames are SNx for shallow and DNx for deep.

Nomenclature is certainly a problem.

Regards, RAB

 

[MuswellMetro]

Possibly could be called a Deep National.

not a 14 x 12. It is a jumbo.

Deep is your 'standatrd brood as some call it. Hence frames are SNx for shallow and DNx for deep.

Nomenclature is certainly a problem.

Regards, RAB

EH Taylor of Welwyn before £hornes took them over called the 14x12 hoffman frames EDN5 and EDN4 for extra deep national + top bar type, similar designation deep national DN1, DN5 and short nation SN1, SN4 etc

 

[Mike a]

I have no problem with being corrected when I'm wrong, its the best way to learn. Now if you would all excuse me I need to push the hoover round....

erm I meant vacuum cleaner honestly...

 

[nonstandard]

I have no problem with being corrected when I'm wrong, its the best way to learn. Now if you would all excuse me I need to push the hoover round....

erm I meant vacuum cleaner honestly...

It's actually more correctly termed a suction cleaner Mike

 

[tonybloke]

unless it is made by Hoover ( the company)

 

[oliver90owner]

I don't mind 'extra deep' as that is what it is.

Regards, RAB