National -> 14 x 12 Working frames out of brood box

[elite123]

Warning - newbie here...

We are due to get our nuc in the next week or so, which will be arriving on national frames, however I have a 14x12 brood box.

Just so I am sure what I need to do can I just check that the following sounds sensible:

• Put national nuc frames in middle of 14x12 brood box
• Place something under national frames (block of wood?) to prevent wild comb
• Surround national frames with 14x12
• Work national frames to the edge

The questions:

1. Will placing a block under the national frames increase veroa count? Would I be better to live with the wild comb?
2. Would it be bad to start with the nuc/national frames at the edge rather than the middle of the brood box (so I don't have to work them to the edges)?
3. Assuming I start with the nuc frames in the middle, what is the best way to work the nuc frames to the edges? Every week move 1 frame of 14x12 from one edge to the other, until the nuc frames are at the edge?
4. When can I actually remove the nuc frames? Should I wait until next spring?

Thank you and sorry for all the questions

 

[snelgrove]

as the the frames are standard national get a standard national brood box, if you wanted the bees on 14 x12, it would have been alot easier buying a 14 x12 nuc.

 

[Briarfield]

as the the frames are standard national get a standard national brood box, if you wanted the bees on 14 x12, it would have been alot easier buying a 14 x12 nuc.

Not always possible.

Thai happened to me. I bought the extensions and added them.

Now I think I would have just allowed wild comb to be added as a varroa control method.

When the SBI came last week he said he put one national Frame in his 14*12 as varroa control.




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[MuswellMetro]

Warning - newbie here...

We are due to get our nuc in the next week or so, which will be arriving on national frames, however I have a 14x12 brood box.

Just so I am sure what I need to do can I just check that the following sounds sensible:

• Put national nuc frames in middle of 14x12 brood box
• Place something under national frames (block of wood?) to prevent wild comb
• Surround national frames with 14x12
• Work national frames to the edge

The questions:

1. Will placing a block under the national frames increase veroa count? Would I be better to live with the wild comb?
2. Would it be bad to start with the nuc/national frames at the edge rather than the middle of the brood box (so I don't have to work them to the edges)?
3. Assuming I start with the nuc frames in the middle, what is the best way to work the nuc frames to the edges? Every week move 1 frame of 14x12 from one edge to the other, until the nuc frames are at the edge?
4. When can I actually remove the nuc frames? Should I wait until next spring?

Thank you and sorry for all the questions

no need IMHO to put national nuc frames in the middle, i always put the five nuc brood frames to one side of the new brood box, then two foundation frames then a dummy board then the extra 4 foundation frames behind the dummy (total 11 frames plus dummy) and move foundation in as they need it

never tried the under block but it might work, i just insert the nationals and let them draw comb, i would also look at the nuc and see what the frames are like, if one just foundation or foundation being drawn...remove it, if one a stores frame place that behind the dummy board until they have alternative stores in a 14x12 then remove the national frame and feed them ...with a bit of luck you will only have three national frames to deal with in a few weeks not five, if you try a block it needs to be 90mm deep and 37mm or 35mmwide for each national frame in the box ( depending on DN1 or Hoffman frames) so you will need several blocs as the number of frames reduce

varroa, dont worry, varroa open mesh floors blockedin part wont increase varroa that much that you would notice until august ,when you do your varroa treatment

frames moving out, i move them the outside of the dummy board justvbefore they bees emerge ad then remove but you need a flow on so they draw new comb

 

[snelgrove]

Not always possible.

Thai happened to me. I bought the extensions and added them.

Now I think I would have just allowed wild comb to be added as a varroa control method.

When the SBI came last week he said he put one national Frame in his 14*12 as varroa control.




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I am sure it might be the case, but when starting beekeeping it is advisable to keep things as simple as possible. Buying a standard national nuc and then wanting to get them on 14 x12 with little knowledge is going to create problems.

 

[domino]

When I've had to problem I put them in a paynes ploy nuc with a ploy broad box on top and en eek to allow me to put in 12x14 frames.

I'm in the process of returning to national standards so am doing this process in reverse.

 

[MuswellMetro]

Not always possible.

Thai happened to me. I bought the extensions and added them.

Now I think I would have just allowed wild comb to be added as a varroa control method.

When the SBI came last week he said he put one national Frame in his 14*12 as varroa control.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

i find the always fall off, or the wax falls out

 

[Hedgerow Honey]

I use two std nat frames in my 14x12 hives for varroa control in my wood hives and one in the poly's they are placed on the outside frames and sometimes the brace comb will fall off but as it gets cut off anyway saves me a job. I do not treat with any chemicals and just use this method which seems to work well enough.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Why would putting a block of wood under the frames increase varroa count?
I would just leave them extend downwards and use the frames like that until you can work them to the sides and take them out.
Putting shallower frames in to create 'drone traps' is a waste of time BTW - latest findings from LASI is that it makes very little difference.

 

[Zante]

Why would putting a block of wood under the frames increase varroa count?

My guess is that the reasoning is that the varroa that fall on the block don't fall through the mesh floor and can climb back onto a bee.
Would that be possible?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

My guess is that the reasoning is that the varroa that fall on the block don't fall through the mesh floor and can climb back onto a bee.
Would that be possible?

Another myth - the mesh floor is not there to control varroa - very few fall off unless they're already dead. It makes little difference whether it's a solid or open mesh floor. It was just used as a'selling point' as the appearance of varroa coincided with a drive to get everyone using OMF.

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

as the the frames are standard national get a standard national brood box, if you wanted the bees on 14 x12, it would have been alot easier buying a 14 x12 nuc.

Which wasn't the question .......

The poster has presumably decided he wants to use 14x12 (quite laudable imho, and its far easier to start off with the right size brood box than switch an established colony), and few nuc suppliers seem to offer 14x12 as an option so it seems quite a reasonable question.

 

[elite123]

Thanks everyone - this is all really helpful.

Decided to go with 14x12 after much reading and initially I struggled to find a local supplier who did 14x12 nucs (hence the national nuc). I've now made some friends in my local BKA and I am getting my second nuc on 14x12 from them.

Thanks again - I'm sure I'll be back with more questions