My new apiary....wot hives?

[Swn58]

As I already use national hives, I decided for the moment to stick with them. I did flirt with the idea of Langstroths. Then there was the problem of what type of hive. I decided to go with Polystyrene, which lead to a lot of agonising over what make! I have looked at loads of post on here over the last few months. Enough to make anyone just buy an old shoe box and hope for the best! In the end it came down to price I'm afraid. I would have bought British, but every version was £20-50 more than Swienty, Paradise Honey of Finland. I bought ten hives, each with two supers for a knock-down price of £95. They came from Bee-Equipment in Kent. All went well, they arrived promptly, along with a Queen rearing kit and other sundries. I realised that part of that kit was wrong, but not the end of the world. I decided to order another five hives, without supers. It was then that it all it all went horribly wrong.......

 

[WoodenBeam]

&..........
You have my attention........
Bee space issue????
Compatibility issues????

PS........Should have gone Commercial

 

[ericbeaumont]

As I already use national hives, I decided for the moment to stick with them. I did flirt with the idea of Langstroths.

From the choice of hive and material flows cost considerations not immediately apparent when starting down the road of expansion. There comes a point when a beekeeper will say I wish I had chosen Langstroth or I wish I had known that Paradise parts are incompatible with others and other factors that don't come to a tired mind.

Nothing wrong with National but more boxes will be needed than with Lang for the same return in capacity. For that reason Lang makes sense if you want to save money and shift and store fewer boxes. Dadant would be a step further in size but you wouldn't want to move full boxes alone.

Hive material that saves weight saves fuel (probably the biggest regular cost) and saves beekeeper energy (use it instead to work longer and think more clearly) so poly is best value, setting aside thermal benefits and low cost.

Choice of hive should not be reduced to the cheapest but guided by versatility and simplicity of use and reliability and accuracy of design and manufacture: BE may have tempted you with a few quid off the Paradise kit but the floor (and probably the roof) is incompatible with wood National.

My choice of National poly is the Abelo: 460mm square footprint matches wood National, and the plastic box rims will extend box life. Only other compatible National box is the Swienty, but that was designed as top bee space and if run as BBS it's a dog's dinner, and the internal spacing is not accurate.

I admire your sense of purpose but it sounds to me as if your knowledge of equipment is not enough to enable you to make effective decisions for long-term expansion. Research and trial of different systems takes time to digest and make critical assessment (and I've ended up in many blind alleys) and you're not there yet.

 

[Erichalfbee]

My choice of National poly is the Abelo: 460mm square footprint matches wood National, and the plastic box rims will extend box life. Only other compatible National box is the Swienty, but that was designed as top bee space and if run as BBS it's a dog's dinner, and the internal spacing is not accurate.

.

Swienty nationals are bottom bee space.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Swienty nationals are bottom bee space.

Swienty National were designed as TBS (hence no rebate on two bottom rims of boxes), but they must have realised that the UK market is mostly BBS, so then they supplied runners which slot into the box wall.

Gives both options, but if the box is used with runners as BBS the lack of rebate results in two base rims of about 30-40mm wide, enough to squash bees or need care when putting boxes together. Adding a rebate would have meant expensive changes to the mould.

 

[Erichalfbee]

You try running Swienty as top space without runners, no matter how they were designed. Whenever I have ordered them they come with runners.
I run mine TS by leaving the runners and glueing on a plastic eke.
The supers have plastic castellations

 

[ericbeaumont]

You try running Swienty as top space without runners, no matter how they were designed. Whenever I have ordered them they come with runners.
I run mine TS by leaving the runners and glueing on a plastic eke.
The supers have plastic castellations

Runners and slots in the box wall were a mod they brought in about ten years ago to convert the hive to BBS, compatible with BBS wood and designed exclusively to satisfy the demands of the British market. Tried them BBS and TBS and both ways had drawbacks (though still in use and full of bees) so for me a dog's dinner it is.

Can't see anything about plastic castellations on the Swienty website or at CWJ or STB; is that your own mod?

 

[Ian123]

Original swienty National was always bottom bee space and designed in and for the British market by itld......I think

 

[WoodenBeam]

As I already use national hives, I decided for the moment to stick with them. I did flirt with the idea of Langstroths. Then there was the problem of what type of hive. I decided to go with Polystyrene, which lead to a lot of agonising over what make! I have looked at loads of post on here over the last few months. Enough to make anyone just buy an old shoe box and hope for the best! In the end it came down to price I'm afraid. I would have bought British, but every version was £20-50 more than Swienty, Paradise Honey of Finland. I bought ten hives, each with two supers for a knock-down price of £95. They came from Bee-Equipment in Kent. All went well, they arrived promptly, along with a Queen rearing kit and other sundries. I realised that part of that kit was wrong, but not the end of the world. I decided to order another five hives, without supers. It was then that it all it all went horribly wrong.......

See what you’ve started

 

[Swn58]

Damn!

Yes.....I just knew that this would all kick off! I just wanted to get this project off the ground with what I was already used too. Langstroths cost no more than anything else, made by Swienty. I will buy some and see how they perform at some point. For now I have gone with Nationals though. I care not if they are compatible with wooden hives. I have enough wood hive components!
The 'drama' did not involve the hives, but Bee-Equipment themselves. They had a sort of Covid-19 meltdown. That is what they blamed anyway! Instead of five brood box hives, they just sent five brood boxes. I kept emailing, but they would not reply. When they eventually did, they did not seem to address what I had told them. Over three weeks, and more emails, I received THREE separate deliveries of the parts to make up the hives themselves. The stress came in the form of me knowing that I was going to be inundated by homeless bees at any moment! During this period of a month, B-E did not stop sending me advertising emails though. Priorities!