My Feral Bee Colour

[Beesnaturally]

This is typical of the colour scheme adopted by my bees and surrounding wild bees over the last few years. Its happened very quickly with no selection on my part. some of my hives show a bit more colour than others, but we seem to be heading for all black colouring via natural selection for the fittest colours, you might say. Is anybody else experiencing the same?

The image is of bees open feeding on fondant, so likely coming from number of colonies, and not just my hives.

 

[Curly green finger's]

This is typical of the colour scheme adopted by my bees and surrounding wild bees over the last few years. Its happened very quickly with no selection on my part. some of my hives show a bit more colour than others, but we seem to be heading for all black colouring via natural selection for the fittest colours, you might say. Is anybody else experiencing the same?

The image is of bees open feeding on fondant, so likely coming from number of colonies, and not just my hives.


View attachment 42205

Are you using any other characteristics other than colour?
In one of my apiary’s one or two colony’s that have superseded, worker bees are all black and have traits that I desire but also sister colony’s which have around 75% black workers, but have all the same traits I desire.
My point is there’s more than colour alone which define native/local bees.
Mark

 

[alancooper]

It would take more than observation supported by a jpg and biased speculation to convince me of natural selection in action.
I have managed local Fermanagh bees for about 15 years and twice over that period occasional yellow banded workers were present for a couple of years. Both instances coincided with two new beeks importing a non-local queen before giving up beekeeping.
It would like to think that what I have observed is a short term process related to predominance of a local queen and drone gene mating pool.

 

[Beesnaturally]

Are you using any other characteristics other than colour?
In one of my apiary’s one or two colony’s that have superseded, worker bees are all black and have traits that I desire but also sister colony’s which have around 75% black workers, but have all the same traits I desire.
My point is there’s more than colour alone which define native/local bees.
Mark

I wasn't really thinking they might be native bees particularly. They'll have a mixed ancestry, but its interesting I think that darkness seems to come through. I think it might also be concrete evidence that ferals are thriving. I'm not 'using' anything. I'm not selecting toward any characteristic except longevity and productivity without any help, but I don't make many nucs. I don't think what do has much impact on the feral population, other than not killing them.

 

[Beesnaturally]

It would take more than observation supported by a jpg and biased speculation to convince me of natural selection in action.

Then you don't know much about natural selection. Its going on all the time, all around you.

 

[rolande]

This is typical of the colour scheme adopted by my bees and surrounding wild bees over the last few years. Its happened very quickly

What colour were the surrounding wild bees previously? Can you think of a reason why their colouring would have changed in the last few years?

My own general experience is that bees in these parts do tend to become darker over generations if light coloured bees being aren't continuously added to the local mix and I've heard many similar claims over the years -I think there may even have been a thread or two on the old Scottish forum which discussed the matter but none of this explains why your local wild population hadn't already headed toward a darker bee before a few years ago.

 

[Beesnaturally]

What colour were the surrounding wild bees previously? Can you think of a reason why their colouring would have changed in the last few years?

All sorts. Random coloured segments. I've given the reason I think they've changed. 'Survivor bees are flourish, and natural selection is driving toward uncoloured segments.

My own general experience is that bees in these parts do tend to become darker over generations if light coloured bees being aren't continuously added to the local mix and I've heard many similar claims over the years -I think there may even have been a thread or two on the old Scottish forum which discussed the matter but none of this explains why your local wild population hadn't already headed toward a darker bee before a few years ago.

I would think there were few wild bees here after varroa struck, and feral bees carried the colouration of imported bees. The pre-varroa ferals were determinedly mongrels - here in the south of England there were no pockets of native bees at that time. And I think there were more beekeepers using colourful bought queens then than now - more now are trying to go natural I think, and there fewer topfruit crops calling in commercial bees for pollination - more are encouraging other pollinators.

It has taken time for a wild population to become established as natural selection drove the development of resistance. During that time (and especially in the last few years) they have become darker. Roughly ten yeas ago I began to notice the odd hive that was clearly smaller and most bees darker. Now almost all my hives are of small, mostly black-segmented bees.

As to rationales: one might be that darker colouration is better suited to the climate and environment (better solar heating?) and so have come to dominate. Another might be that dark bee genes remained in segment of the feral population that survived, and those genes are better suited to the local environment. Thinking about it, I suspect both those things might have been necessary, though there is the possibility that beekeepers have been introducing native dark bees to the area.

 

[Penninetrader]

This is typical of the colour scheme adopted by my bees and surrounding wild bees over the last few years. Its happened very quickly with no selection on my part. some of my hives show a bit more colour than others, but we seem to be heading for all black colouring via natural selection for the fittest colours, you might say. Is anybody else experiencing the same?

The image is of bees open feeding on fondant, so likely coming from number of colonies, and not just my hives.


View attachment 42205

They look cracking bees, is there a ringer in the pack there, colour wise ?

 

[Beesnaturally]

They look cracking bees, is there a ringer in the pack there, colour wise ?

Thanks! I'm rather chuffed to have them, and I think its a good sign. Yes, one or two interlopers, on the outside of the pack mind

 

[rolande]

though there is the possibility that beekeepers have been introducing native dark bees to the area.

Not to mention *anything* else they fancy!

 

[alancooper]

Then you don't know much about natural selection. Its going on all the time, all around you.

The point of my post to you was that unbiased case study and experimental science is integral to achieving reliable evidence.

 

[Beesnaturally]

The point of my post to you was that unbiased case study and experimental science is integral to achieving reliable evidence.

No. Evidence is independent of anything. That photograph is evidence of dark bees feeding in my yard.

Do you believe it to be genuine evidence? Would you like me to repeat it with something in the image that confirms it's reliability? The front page of today's paper?
Let's move to the stage where you accept my evidence. Then we can ask how it is dark bees are open feeding In my yard.

 

[Penninetrader]

No. Evidence is independent of anything. That photograph is evidence of dark bees feeding in my yard.

Do you believe it to to genuine evidence? Would you like me to repeat it with something in the image that confirms it's reliability? The front page of today's paper?
Let's move to the stage where you accept my evidence. Then we can ask how it is dark bees are open feeding In my yard.

I myself have commented when open feeding to have used it in order to observe my near neighbours. Of course it is not good practice for many reasons to open feed and I do not do it regularly and not near my girls homes. I have no proof but I feel that whatever is native to a region will constantly try to restore their genetics. That does not mean to say revert to what may have existed 100 years ago, Darwin demonstrated that is not how nature works. As for open mating and multiple sperm donors, I think things are much more complex than that, nature suggests it will not be an evens Steven's situation in regards the offspring, there will be dominant genes that will do exactly that, dominate. Most of my girls are darker bees and visitors indistinguishable, I have one colony that was a swarm and that is moving more towards dark.Their queen at last sighting was a mixture of Brown and dark caramel in colour.

 

[Beesnaturally]

Their queen at last sighting was a mixture of Brown and dark caramel in colour.

My queens have often been the same, though I've seen a few black ones. This is one (with almost the whole of her remaining retinue) from a nuc 'dead out' I bought in a few days ago. (Which is a story for another thread.)

 

[rolande]

from a nuc 'dead out' I bought in a few days ago. (Which is a story for another thread.)

You're doing well if funds allow you to buy deadouts. I'll look forward to reading this new thread when you start it.

 

[Beesnaturally]

You're doing well if funds allow you to buy deadouts. I'll look forward to reading this new thread when you start it.

'brought *in*' as in brought in from an out-apiary (and also bought into the warm ahead of stripping out). My bad on the spelling.