'My 2nd year plan'

[Poly Hive]

There was a classic situation during I believe rationing when blue dyed sugar was offered to beekeepers... and guess where it was seen?

It's a proven event.

PH

 

[Skyhook]

This is part of the reason for working the brood box.

It also applies to stored syrup and and or stored fondant neither of which should be allowed contact with supers.

The fact that people are mentioning this demos that there is a mind set of supering too early.

On a nat single brood box I super on 8 frames of brood, not bees, brood and only if well covered with bees. The other three I would want to be either empty or pollen combs, NOT stores, and nor do I want stores in the brood frames.

Risk of starvation? Possibly, but there is no risk of contamination to the supers.

Just some food for thought.

PH

How would you deal with an early flow where they are honey blocked on 4 or 5 frames of brood and have nowhere to move it to? Would you replace with empty frames? I know it's been discussed recently but I'm having trouble getting my head round it.

 

[Erichalfbee]

How would you deal with an early flow where they are honey blocked on 4 or 5 frames of brood and have nowhere to move it to? Would you replace with empty frames? I know it's been discussed recently but I'm having trouble getting my head round it.

Mine were honey blocked last April and I didn't act quickly enough with the obvious consequences. This year I am armed with empty drawn brood frames.

 

[For want of a better word]

There was a classic situation during I believe rationing when blue dyed sugar was offered to beekeepers... and guess where it was seen?

It's a proven event.

PH

Curacao



?????????

​

 

[Poly Hive]

i have concerns about writing up how to deal with this as it is not really a technique for total beginners of whom we have a pretty big number on the site.

I have no wish to have people pointing the finger later on saying you said.... and look at the mess I am in now..

TBH I care not for the people but I do worry about their bees suffering.

It is a very simple technique but it does take for granted that the operator can judge the strength of the colony accurately.

PH

 

[victor meldrew]

All this begs the question, when will honey analysis be readily, speedily and cheaply available ?
VM

 

[Poly Hive]

Who knows but the principle stands. Bees move stores from brood combs to supers given the chance.

Best practice is to clear the brood box of stores pre supering.

PH

 

[For want of a better word]

Possibly a misunderstanding here.
No doubt that cleared brood comb stores will keep until the Autumn... and in all probability that is the best way forward, my suggestion was not to super too quickly and to allow bees to use up the stores they have by giving them a new brood box, on top, with some new foundation to play with. If they want to move stores up they will put it in the new brood box ( since they do not have a super available?).

Can I add...
The bees do not know if you are a beginner !

 

[Poly Hive]

Ok.

But.............

If you are working a single brood box what then?

PH

 

[victor meldrew]

Who knows but the principle stands. Bees move stores from brood combs to supers given the chance.

Best practice is to clear the brood box of stores pre supering.

PH

Quite so,but best practice is no guarantee !
VM

 

[Poly Hive]

If you want a guarantee you need to work your brood box... lol

PH

 

[For want of a better word]

Ok.

But.............

If you are working a single brood box what then?

PH

Beg, steal.borrow or even buy another brood box !
​

There is SO much info you can not find in books on this FORUM !

 

[Poly Hive]

Cheating...

PH

LOL

 

[drstitson]

"All this begs the question, when will honey analysis be readily, speedily and cheaply available ?"

what actually is available in the UK?

here is the price list from CRA-API - much of it seems very reasonable.
http://www.cra-api.it/online/index.php?c=59

very interesting that you can get an accredited confirmation of botanic & geographic origin for €93.17:

"“Origine botanica e geografica MDP/08 + (MDP/74) (analisi sensoriale descrittiva semplificata)” se si vuole ricevere sia la definizione dell’origine geografica che botanica (77 € + IVA)."

 

[victor meldrew]

Price is crapi for the hobbyist Soz!
VM

 

[the naked beekeeper]

The way I see it. Thymolated syrup is fed as an Autumn feed for overwintering.

It will sit in the brood combs as a store.

Next season, the bees will bring nectar in and store it, initially in the brood chamber.

Some of that stores will be moved up into a super, if you add one, and maybe quite a bit if bruising the cappings to get them to shift it.

Whether it is thymolated stuff that gets moved up or not, is not the issue. Hopefully it will all be eaten before a chance to move it into a super.

But eventually, stores will go where that stuff was, in the same cells, absorb the smell and some of it, will get moved up into the honey supers. Either by the bees own volition or by working the brood frames.

You can try and keep it out directly from the supers. With maybe some degree of success.

But for me it's more a case of future stores being placed in the same cells and absorbing that lingering smell, where it once was.
And bees do move stores around.

I'd rather stay away from it for that reason.

 

[For want of a better word]

The way I see it. Thymolated syrup is fed as an Autumn feed for overwintering.

It will sit in the brood combs as a store.

Next season, the bees will bring nectar in and store it, initially in the brood chamber.

Some of that stores will be moved up into a super, if you add one, and maybe quite a bit if bruising the cappings to get them to shift it.

Whether it is thymolated stuff that gets moved up or not, is not the issue. Hopefully it will all be eaten before a chance to move it into a super.

But eventually, stores will go where that stuff was, in the same cells, absorb the smell and some of it, will get moved up into the honey supers. Either by the bees own volition or by working the brood frames.

You can try and keep it out directly from the supers. With maybe some degree of success.

But for me it's more a case of future stores being placed in the same cells and absorbing that lingering smell, where it once was.
And bees do move stores around.

I'd rather stay away from it for that reason.

What about the thymol contained in the propitiatory Autumn treatments?

I have not ever has a complaint of tainting in any of my honey... but saying that can remember a number of complaints about mint flavouring in chocolate if a vat got contaminated, when I worked in the market development dept. for George ****** confectionery manufacturers in Waddon / Croydon
Very low level of mint.. but some could detect it... certainly did not kill the cocoa moth tho!

 

[drstitson]

Aside from the excellent advice from PH re the appropriate overall status of the brood box BEFORE even considering supering one should also not forget that from general hygiene, vitality and IPM point of view those strong overwintered colonies that you're expecting to provide the majority of your crop from should ideally be being shook-swarmed prior to the flow so stored syrup and thymol taint won't be an issue.

 

[Tom Bick]

Round my way if I was to wait for my bees to get to 8 frames of brood before I super the hives then they will never get to 8 frames as the bb will be full of honey and the bees will be disappearing over the fence.

This has nothing to do with swarmy bees but just my local conditions forage arrives early and fast with me just when the bees need it.

If I was to stimulate brood earlier in the year then perhaps I may get to 8 frames with no need for supers as I will be controlling the syrup and food going into the hive but then I have no interest or need to do this.

 

[For want of a better word]

Aside from the excellent advice from PH re the appropriate overall status of the brood box BEFORE even considering supering one should also not forget that from general hygiene, vitality and IPM point of view those strong overwintered colonies that you're expecting to provide the majority of your crop from should ideally be being shook-swarmed prior to the flow so stored syrup and thymol taint won't be an issue.

What do YOU do with the frames still full of thymolated stores..... deepfreeze till Autumn and feed back on the frame?

'' or use as firelighters... ?