Multiple OA treatments

[MJBee]

I have 1 hive that is causing concern. It was treated on the 29th of December. Since then there has been a mite drop of just under 1350 Even now at day 14 post OA the daily mite drop is 56!!

I have never given more than one OA treatment but this colony looks as if it needs one. My questions are:-
1. How long after the first treatment can a second be given?
2. Same strength OA?
3. What, if any, are the risks.
4. Are there any alternatives?

This is (was) a strong colony in a double National brood, it is active and foraging at every opportunity, bringing in pollen. It shows no sign of varroa induced ailments - DWV etc.

All my other colonies are down to between 1 and 4 daily mite drop, why this one one should be so badly effected has me baffled. All my hives had Apiguard at the same time (Aug/Sept)

 

[Finman]

I have 1 hive that is causing concern. It was treated on the 29th of December. Since then there has been a mite drop of just under 1350 Even now at day 14 post OA the daily mite drop is 56!!
)

OA is still working there. It affects 4 weeks.

A finnish researcher Seppo Korpela has calculated during many years mites' drop

year 2000 altogether 34468 falled mites

1-2 weeks 96%
3-4. weeks 2,4 %

v. 2004 ... 10730 mites:

1-2 weeks 98 %
3-4 weeks 2 %

Y 2005.... 12270 mites

1-2 weeks 96 %
3-4 weeks 4 %

 

[MJBee]

Thanks Finman - I will keep monitoring for another two weeks and hope for an improvement.

 

[Winker]

try this

http://www.mydeo.com/videorequest.asp?XID=27832&CID=170951

 

[BobsBees]

1 treatment

Hi MJBee,
I have been told and read about it, to ONLY treat with Oxalic acid once in the winter.
I will look out for the info and if I find it will let you know.
Apparently the acid can affect the queens ability to lay and fertilise the egg.
It can also shorten her life.
I would suggest that you have now done all you can for this hive at the moment,
But in the spring you could split into a new hive with plenty of fresh foundation,
the large infestation is more likely to be the fact that there are such great numbers in the hive at this time. I'm sure your winter has been similar to ours, very mild and the poor queen just hasn't stopped laying for more than a few days at a time.
Looks like IF we do get a very cold prolonged snap many beekeepers will lose some bees.
Just my observations over the past few years. Topsy turvey summers and winters.
Bob.

 

[Arfermo]

try this

http://www.mydeo.com/videorequest.asp?XID=27832&CID=170951

I use a Varrox vapouriser. The one in this video is a plumbing lashup which as can be seen leaks dangerously. Wouldn't touch it. As regards the Varrox, the instructions recommend that for a very heavy mite drop a second treatment after 2 weeks is necessary. It also says that further treatment at lesser doses is also possible without ill effects.
Two years ago I had a mite drop of over 3000 on a hive so I gave up counting and treated twice more and the following year I was rewarded with over 130 lbs of honey and the Q is still there - albeit not much longer.
I therefore recommend that MJ Bee gives them another dose immediately but its too late for any more than that whatever the method.

 

[Finman]

Hi MJBee,
I have been told and read about it, to ONLY treat with Oxalic acid once in the winter.,.

With new knowledge it is not true any more. Earlier it was said that only one treatment. You may handle your hives every year and your 4 year old queens are in good condition.

Practically in UK two treatments are difficult. The effect of treatment is one month. Then you have allready brood in your hives.

In Finland our varroa specialist Korpela has done 3 years a treatment twice.
It is in October and in March after cleansing flight.

I have done it twice. First did not succeeded but the second was succes.

But actually do the treatment ib spring with thymol or with formic acid if you have troubles.




NOTE

You may get high drops months later after treatment, because dead mites may drop inside the empty comb cells. When bees clean those cells in Spring, the mite drop may seem "dangerously high"

 

[Finman]

I therefore recommend that MJ Bee gives them another dose immediately but its too late for any more than that whatever the method.

Absolutely not!
don´t become mad with these tricks

Vaporazing too has one month affect time. Don't treat them quickly again.

Look the graph

Look from google: david cushman oxalic acid.

http://www.google.com/search?source...archBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&rlz=1I7ADFA_fiFI449

.

 

[oliver90owner]

Another treatment should be unecessary at this time.

Think about it with a tiny bit of maths.

Say your drop is 1500. At the famed 95% (or greater) efficacy of this stuff there should now remain less than 5% or the original infestation - just 80 mites at the most. You should have almost another four months or perhaps more until the mite level is back at one thousand. That is plenty of time to consider alternatives.

Any damage to the colony, by those 1500 mites, has been done and they (the dead ones) are no longer a threat. The colony certainly has not been improved with that mite infestation, but some colonies seem to withstand the varroa better than others and the 1000 mite threshold will be a fairly conservative figure, I would have thought.

Alternatives, if necessary could be miticide strips, apistan or other thymol treatments, formic acid, shook swarm and likely a couple others.

Certainly, IMO, a second treatment with oxalic is not to be recommended. Even though previous research carried out in controlled conditions by presumably well-able and qualified operatives/researchers is, apparently, no longer valid, or true, as Finman claims.

RAB

 

[Luminos]

Good luck MJBee, however you decide to proceed.

 

[Winker]

I use a Varrox vapouriser. The one in this video is a plumbing lashup which as can be seen leaks dangerously. Wouldn't touch it. As regards the Varrox, the instructions recommend that for a very heavy mite drop a second treatment after 2 weeks is necessary. It also says that further treatment at lesser doses is also possible without ill effects.
Two years ago I had a mite drop of over 3000 on a hive so I gave up counting and treated twice more and the following year I was rewarded with over 130 lbs of honey and the Q is still there - albeit not much longer.
I therefore recommend that MJ Bee gives them another dose immediately but its too late for any more than that whatever the method.

I was not recomending he buy the vapouriser being used! I was advising if he was to do a second treatment to use a vapouriser insted of a syrup drip.

If the home made vapouriser is made correct it should not leak from any of the joints. The same as my gas pipes dont leak gas.

I

 

[Ely]

It must have been great being a beekeeper before blummin varroa

 

[MJBee]

It must have been great being a beekeeper before blummin varroa

It Was I started in 1980 and moving with my job kept me ahead of the dreaded mite until Spring 2008. Nosema and Acarine were about as were the deadly duo EFB and AFB but management was much simpler.

 

[Nic Rhodes]

we spent all our time worrying about Braula mite trails in our cut comb cappings!

 

[Ely]

It Was I started in 1980 and moving with my job kept me ahead of the dreaded mite until Spring 2008. Nosema and Acarine were about as were the deadly duo EFB and AFB but management was much simpler.

Did you move your hives? Or did you sell up and start afresh each time you moved? Just for an idea, how common are the other diseases such as afb, efb etc? I.E would it be unlucky to see AFB in a lifetime, or should we all expect to see it at somepoint?

 

[RoofTops]

Just for an idea, how common are the other diseases such as afb, efb etc? I.E would it be unlucky to see AFB in a lifetime, or should we all expect to see it at somepoint?

You would be unlucky to see AFB where you live. Between 1999 and 2011 there were just 4 outbreaks in Norfolk, involving a total of 21 colonies. EFB is about 10 time more common at the very least - but not so disastrous.

You can see all this info here: https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/public/BeeDiseases/diseaseIncidenceMaps.cfm

 

[Ely]

Thanks. I'll give it a read

 

[MJBee]

Ely, - My bees travelled with me Their route Wiltshire - Devon - Powys - Northumberland - Carmarthen over a period of 19 years.

I sold my bees in 1999 but kept all the hardware, moved to France and started again in 2000. Pursuading bees to move from a Dadant nuc into a National was interesting but another story

 

[Ely]

Ely, - My bees travelled with me Their route Wiltshire - Devon - Powys - Northumberland - Carmarthen over a period of 19 years.

I sold my bees in 1999 but kept all the hardware, moved to France and started again in 2000. Pursuading bees to move from a Dadant nuc into a National was interesting but another story

Do you find your beekeeping differs much in France than it did over here?

 

[MJBee]

Quote - Do you find your beekeeping differs much in France than it did over here? - unquote.

There is no difference in the actual management and handling, The weather (in the main better) is the big difference giving a longer season. The compulsory declaration of numbers and location(s) of hives is a minor pain but necessary to permit the sale of honey. We have all the pests and ailments that the UK has plus of course the Asian Hornet